Discussion: 2012 Preview

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    • This is the BEST news I have seen since I started playing over 2 1/2yrs ago! Finally they are giving us(the players) what we want! New graphics and extra building spots!! :pump: :pump: :pump:

      I am soo pumped up about this news, that I will probably not function the rest of the afternoon here at my job.

      1 little, minor, small favor Devs...Can this update come any sooner?
    • There's a difference between strategy for building and strategy for the game. Adding 2 more spots isn't going to negate any "skill" required. Being someone that's planned out until the end game scenario (every building im going to have) the only thing this changes is not requiring the tear down of carpenters and architects in end game. Up to that point it will make things a bit easier, but by no means less challenging.

      Take my current town setup

      2 warehouses, carp, arch, spy hideout, GR
      museum, tavern
      3 preference buildings, academy, 1 booster, and optional 1 per town building

      Adding 2 more building
      another preference building, for me second booster
      dump so I don't have to tear down another building

      That doesn't negate any "skill" on my part, only removes the annoyance of having to destroy another building when I want the dump. Still doesn't allow me to have barracks in every town, or other things I don't already have.


      My buildings guide -- My 0 Military Defense Guide
      * @Lissala slaps ImperialUser around a bit with a large trout
    • I think everyone has to understand that as the years pass the game has to evolve and it can not stay the same. Though perhaps half of us may not like the new updates and wish that they would revert back to a previous version or keep it the same but whether we like it or not we will get new changes we may not like them or maybe we will but the game has to change and like i said before we all have to adapt whether we like it or not.
    • I think adding building slots is about the only thing that could get me to quit Ikariam entirely.

      I have built an 11+ million point account, managing my building space carefully, working hard to get those level 40 dumps and level 40 warehouses when I needed them, tearing down buildings to put up new buildings. When I started playing, buying ambrosia could help you out, but you could compete without it. Then they introduced Ambrosia-only building levels. I figured well, okay, not a lot of people are going to be able to build those anyway, at least not right away. Now they want to make all my sacrifices moot as well. Let anyone easily build up towns, let people keep an Architect when building a GR11, not have to sacrifice the Carpenter for the Architect to build the level 45 Tavern.

      Now I am going to be penalized for building these things first, instead of waiting for them to give me more building slots and completely change the game? I work for three years to get an edge, and they say now everybody can have what you worked for 3 years for much more cheaply. Already they made island choices based on wonders worthless, even bad choices, and as they gradually phase out long-time inactives they make those of us who didn't build all our towns together to concentrate our donations seem foolish. Even the ability to help nearby newbies out was severely limited by limiting trade. I can no longer surprise the person who scraped his 439 marble together to sell to me by raising my price to 99 gold just before his ship arrives, giving him a windfall and a chance to build that new colony much sooner, or buy more ships.

      Do the developers understand the game? Do they play at a high level? Do they understand what is involved in finishing a town? In a game where plans need to be made months, even years in advance, sudden complete changes in rules which leave you playing a different game are jarring. Imagine playing chess, then having all your pieces on white squares eliminated, all your pieces on black squares turned into checkers, and being told you would then be playing checkers.

      So, if we are going to be playing a different game in 2012, they need to let us know when, and what the game is. What new buildings, what new spaces, so we can make our plans for 2012, 2013, and 2014. How can I make any building decisions when I don't know what the options are?

      The rules of a game determine what kind of a game it is, what the strategy is. Change the rules, you have a different game. Maybe a tiny change completely changes the game. What if you say in Go a group is dead if it has only 1 freedom, instead of none? The new game is nothing like Go at all!

      The 0.3.0 update changed the game, introduced the entire strategy element of building choice. A lot of people thought that was bad at the time. I thought it was at least interesting. In the end, none of the other updates radically changed the game, although there was one threat to do so. Are we going to go back and say all our planning based on the 0.3.0 changes was wasted, because that was only a temporary thing, don't bother figuring out how to be efficient long term, because by the time you do, when you have invested a lot of personal time and a lot of game resources into building your buildings in the right order, taking down and rebuilding Warehouses, Academies, Foresters, Carpenters, Opticians, Architects, Barracks, we will change back?

      I am feeling pretty disgusted right now. Maybe I will feel better later. But just a tantalizing hint that I have wasted three years is not the right way to give someone this kind of news. Tell us up front what we have to contend with, so we can decide to quit now, wait to see if things are actually as bad as they sound when implemented, or try to adapt and swallow the effort we have wasted up to now.
    • I have a question. Does having more spots mean we are able to have more warehouses and does this then mean we are able to have more resources stored in our village and, so here is the most important part of the question, does this mean we are able to build another village or would the resources needed still be too much?
    • automeris wrote:

      Let anyone easily build up towns, let people keep an Architect when building a GR11, not have to sacrifice the Carpenter for the Architect to build the level 45 Tavern.
      I don't know what your building plan looks like, but your doing it wrong in my book. I am able to have dumps, warehouses, carpenter and architects buildings all at the same time, and that's including opticians as well since I am maxing out academies. And the sacrifices? Meeh...I'll get over it. It was something to pushing beyond what other players could do normally without that much planning.

      DeathsSage wrote:

      Does having more spots mean we are able to have more warehouses
      Amount of warehouses you can have isn't increasing, it's just making it easier for folks to do without having to sacrifice another building.

      DeathsSage wrote:

      does this mean we are able to build another village or would the resources needed still be too much?
      For more towns you need higher level palace, and it is hard capped at lvl 11 you can't upgrade it further.


      My buildings guide -- My 0 Military Defense Guide
      * @Lissala slaps ImperialUser around a bit with a large trout
    • DeathsSage wrote:

      I have a question. Does having more spots mean we are able to have more warehouses and does this then mean we are able to have more resources stored in our village and, so here is the most important part of the question, does this mean we are able to build another village or would the resources needed still be too much?

      Thats a very good question. maybe if all the reducers are used 4warehouses 1Dump AND ambrosia is enough to go for a 13th city.

      EDIT: nevermind, IU answered :eyeroll:

      The post was edited 1 time, last by MrSmiléy ().

    • ImperialUser wrote:

      There's a difference between strategy for building and strategy for the game. Adding 2 more spots isn't going to negate any "skill" required. Being someone that's planned out until the end game scenario (every building im going to have) the only thing this changes is not requiring the tear down of carpenters and architects in end game. Up to that point it will make things a bit easier, but by no means less challenging.

      Take my current town setup

      2 warehouses, carp, arch, spy hideout, GR
      museum, tavern
      3 preference buildings, academy, 1 booster, and optional 1 per town building

      Adding 2 more building
      another preference building, for me second booster
      dump so I don't have to tear down another building

      That doesn't negate any "skill" on my part, only removes the annoyance of having to destroy another building when I want the dump. Still doesn't allow me to have barracks in every town, or other things I don't already have.


      You are right, having to decide if you have barracks in every town but that is a luxury. Why would you need barracks in all your towns, its a luxury.
      Now you had to decide to build a temple or an arcitects office with very different outcomes. It was a challange and it was hard to select witch one to select.

      I think it does take skill to have to demoslish a building to keep growing, because the decision what builing you remove will have a big impact so you have to select wisely.

      I now had to tear down a building in every town to be able to build my 10th city. I had to make strategic decisions and had to chose between getting rid of academies, barracks or and embassies. I am sure you were able to grow fast because you made right decisions in buildins. Now anyone can do it. Some decided to keep more barracks and temple to fight but could not build the resources buildings.. Great strategic adition to the game!

      Why is GameForge taking away every challange, the next thing will be an auto builder, selecting the right building for you.. All your goods and gold will be protected and there will be protection for everyone up to 1m points.. woot! :thumbdown:


      In the suggestion box this has been discussed and the players who took the time to discuss it mostly voted against it. For very good reasons...
    • Dutchie wrote:

      In the suggestion box this has been discussed and the players who took the time to discuss it mostly voted against it. For very good reasons...



      NOt that i am against the new layout but Dutchie has a point this changes were discussed and shot down for many reasons which they all ended up in the dead end ideas only to be implemented by GF in the upcoming year.

      Makes the suggestion thread useless if you ask me... keep it going and bamcbix will retire for sure.... :(
    • tehfallen wrote:

      How does this take away from hard work?


      Were you up in arms when the Dumps were added, saying that the same things? That it took away from everyone's hard work who had expanded without using it?

      When they introduced the Dump, they did make it easier for anyone to reach the point I had struggled to get to, the ability to have 11 towns. But they also made it possible for me to have 12 towns, and moreover, made the work I had done toward reaching 11 towns work toward 12 towns. So it balanced. And people who had abandoned Sulfur were adversely affected, but they could make up for it by colonizing a sulfur town with the extra potential space they now had. Again, not devestating.

      And yes, I was up in arms when they tried to make it impossible for newer players to reach the levels that only older players could have yet reached, players on older servers, and I even think my impassioned plea might have had something to do with Gameforge reconsidering that change. You can search for that post of mine if you wish, I am not feeling like finding it and making a link right now.



      The thing is, this is really only going to hurt those of us who already have towns with GR11, Tavern 45, Wall 45, Trading Port 43, Museum 19, which I guess is under a dozen players on .com, all told. Everybody else is being told they won't have to make the sacrifices we made to get these towns built, sacrifices they probably had planned but not yet made. Why wouldn't they be happy? But is Ikariam a sandbox (like MIneCraft) or a game (like Race for the Galaxy)? Are we competing to build most effeciently, or just enjoying building and fighting and making friends? I would say it is a game, like Race. If I have to adjust my perception, then I also have to decide if it is still meeting the needs I want it to meet for me. I already have a sandbox, one so good I payed money for it the day I heard about it. Ikariam is nowhere near that level as a sandbox.

      If it is a sandbox, then Ikariam management is perfectly correct to make changes that alter the game in a manner that makes it more fun for the masses. If it is a competition, they have no business making changes that radically alter the balance for the most successful players.
    • Hari Seldon wrote:

      I am assuming that with the new layout there is a also a lot more code that goes behind it considering that the current simpleish code is giving out a very annoying bug already cus of slow connections I am worried that this may only get worse with the new code.

      Agreed with Hari_Seldon
      in my opinion we need atleast 3 MBps connection to play it easily.


      I really love the new layout no words to thank GF

      and about 2 additional space
      i will use it for booster in some towns and in some i will use it for carpenter etc. :)
    • automeris wrote:

      I think adding building slots is about the only thing that could get me to quit Ikariam entirely.

      I have built an 11+ million point account, managing my building space carefully, working hard to get those level 40 dumps and level 40 warehouses when I needed them, tearing down buildings to put up new buildings. When I started playing, buying ambrosia could help you out, but you could compete without it. Then they introduced Ambrosia-only building levels. I figured well, okay, not a lot of people are going to be able to build those anyway, at least not right away. Now they want to make all my sacrifices moot as well. Let anyone easily build up towns, let people keep an Architect when building a GR11, not have to sacrifice the Carpenter for the Architect to build the level 45 Tavern.

      Now I am going to be penalized for building these things first, instead of waiting for them to give me more building slots and completely change the game? I work for three years to get an edge, and they say now everybody can have what you worked for 3 years for much more cheaply. Already they made island choices based on wonders worthless, even bad choices, and as they gradually phase out long-time inactives they make those of us who didn't build all our towns together to concentrate our donations seem foolish. Even the ability to help nearby newbies out was severely limited by limiting trade. I can no longer surprise the person who scraped his 439 marble together to sell to me by raising my price to 99 gold just before his ship arrives, giving him a windfall and a chance to build that new colony much sooner, or buy more ships.

      Do the developers understand the game? Do they play at a high level? Do they understand what is involved in finishing a town? In a game where plans need to be made months, even years in advance, sudden complete changes in rules which leave you playing a different game are jarring. Imagine playing chess, then having all your pieces on white squares eliminated, all your pieces on black squares turned into checkers, and being told you would then be playing checkers.

      So, if we are going to be playing a different game in 2012, they need to let us know when, and what the game is. What new buildings, what new spaces, so we can make our plans for 2012, 2013, and 2014. How can I make any building decisions when I don't know what the options are?

      The rules of a game determine what kind of a game it is, what the strategy is. Change the rules, you have a different game. Maybe a tiny change completely changes the game. What if you say in Go a group is dead if it has only 1 freedom, instead of none? The new game is nothing like Go at all!

      The 0.3.0 update changed the game, introduced the entire strategy element of building choice. A lot of people thought that was bad at the time. I thought it was at least interesting. In the end, none of the other updates radically changed the game, although there was one threat to do so. Are we going to go back and say all our planning based on the 0.3.0 changes was wasted, because that was only a temporary thing, don't bother figuring out how to be efficient long term, because by the time you do, when you have invested a lot of personal time and a lot of game resources into building your buildings in the right order, taking down and rebuilding Warehouses, Academies, Foresters, Carpenters, Opticians, Architects, Barracks, we will change back?

      I am feeling pretty disgusted right now. Maybe I will feel better later. But just a tantalizing hint that I have wasted three years is not the right way to give someone this kind of news. Tell us up front what we have to contend with, so we can decide to quit now, wait to see if things are actually as bad as they sound when implemented, or try to adapt and swallow the effort we have wasted up to now.


      QFT

      Awesome sig by the awesome cookies goddess, Brinastar :heartbeat:
    • More building spots?! *does a happy dance* Thank you thank you thank you!!!!!

      I fail to see how having new spots for buildings "hurts" anyone. If you don't want them, don't use them. For those of us who have been tearing buildings down and then rebuilding them after a GR is upgraded, they're GREAT! It can make cities a little more versatile. Alliance leaders can have a little more breathing room with all those embassies. And it gives everyone something new to plan for in their cities.

      I also like the idea of making the game a little more user friendly for the smartphone players.

      sig by Checkmate

      I dug my key into the side
      Of his pretty little souped-up four-wheel drive,
      Carved my name into his leather seats...
      I took a Louisville slugger to both headlights,
      Slashed a hole in all four tires...
      Maybe next time he'll think before he cheats
    • Should we add a spy action to spy upgrades? 22
      1.  
        5 - I love this idea (7) 32%
      2.  
        4 - I really like this idea (4) 18%
      3.  
        3 - I like this idea (3) 14%
      4.  
        2 - I dislike this idea (2) 9%
      5.  
        1 - I really dislike this idea (1) 5%
      6.  
        0 - I hate this idea (5) 23%

      automeris wrote:

      If it is a sandbox, then Ikariam management is perfectly correct to make changes that alter the game in a manner that makes it more fun for the masses. If it is a competition, they have no business making changes that radically alter the balance for the most successful players.
      It's a game and business, pleasing the most people should be their primary goal in any changes. Unless it's some kind of balance issue that everyone is abusing.

      As for "goals achievable by only older players", realize that just about any online game now days is going to go through changes that allow this. It doesn't mean your achievements are now worthless, it just means you have a head start on everyone else getting to them before everyone else could get to them. I'm one of those players with lvl 11 GR's, all I see is taking out the annoyance of tear down to build another building to make it possible, just to tear down the dump to rebuild the building I just took out. It still takes skill figuring out what buildings you are going to use in each town, you just don't have to plan on tearing them down.

      Honestly, look at this building list for my capital which already has an over-abundance of warehouses in plans for maxing out each building.

      Upgrade buildings to
      Port 42, Museum 19, Wall 44, Tavern 44, Hall 32 (+?)

      Ambro Warehouse, finish building
      Tavern 46, Museum 20 (+?), Wall 45

      Tear down and replace with
      X Warehouse - Barrack
      X architect - forester
      X dump - hideout
      X carp - Winepress

      Adding 2 buildings isn't going to change that by much. I keep the dump and third warehouse. Realize this is close to 6 months building in just 1 town that's already half way finished, skill level hasn't changed it just makes the game more bearable. If anything it only makes the game go faster, having both production buildings along with however else you choose to upgrade your towns.


      My buildings guide -- My 0 Military Defense Guide
      * @Lissala slaps ImperialUser around a bit with a large trout
    • I'd like to see a pic of the world map. I'm curious just how many islands fit into it. I've wanted a larger view when moving around the map since the beginning.

      I'm hoping the addition of two new building spots means they're planning on adding some more buildings later.
    • 'ImperialUser wrote:


      As for "goals achievable by only older players", realize that just about any online game now days is going to go through changes that allow this. It doesn't mean your achievements are now worthless, it just means you have a head start on everyone else getting to them before everyone else could get to them.

      You misunderstand. I was refering to the proposed change that would not have allowed further construction of GR10s. If you had them already, you had them, if you didn't, you could never build them. So older European servers would have been entrenched ahead of ours.


      ImperialUser wrote:


      automeris wrote:

      Let anyone easily build up towns, let people keep an Architect when building a GR11, not have to sacrifice the Carpenter for the Architect to build the level 45 Tavern.

      I don't know what your building plan looks like, but your doing it wrong in my book. I am able to have dumps, warehouses, carpenter and architects buildings all at the same time, and that's including opticians as well since I am maxing out academies. And the sacrifices? Meeh...I'll get over it. It was something to pushing beyond what other players could do normally without that much planning.

      At the point of building a GR11 in a marble town I would have the following 15 buildings:

      Governer's Residence 10
      Town Hall 37
      Wall 45
      Hideout 32
      Tavern 44
      Museum 19
      Dump 40
      Warehouse 40
      Warehouse 40
      Warehouse 40
      Warehouse 40
      Trading Port 43
      Ship Yard 32
      Stonemason 32
      Carpenter 32

      I would have just replaced the Architect with the necessary temporary fourth Warehouse, and built it to completion.

      Yes, I could sacrifice the Hideout for an Architect, but that also means I don't have the spies to figure out where I am going to pillage the resources needed for that GR11, besides the safety issues--which admittedly, are less now that anyone can spy on you anyway. Or I could take down the Hideout instead of the Carpenter for the Architect needed for the Tavern 45, which also needs 4 warehouses and a dump to build.

      If I delayed building the Stonemason, which could be built with much less storage, I could build more efficiently, but also wouldn't have the massive amounts of marble required to build to this point. Or I could forego the Museum until after the GR11 is built (my choice in wine towns), which is complete already with only three Warehouses, and not have the population and the accompanying cash to buy resources and field an army with.


      There is no way you didn't sacrifice some one of these (And note I have also delayed building the Academy, which needs only three warehouses to complete to level 32, until after this point, another sacrifice, and perhaps the biggest one.) unless you used ambrosia to double your storage capacity. And don't even get me started on how fair I think Ambrosia-only building levels are, well beyond the general practice in on-line games of making the perks for paying nice but not unleveling of the playing field. Before they introduced this, I might have bought Ambrosia if the game got good enough, but now I would feel I was getting an unfair advantage and would never consider it. I wouldn't consider it sporting.
    • I used ambrosia for double warehouse capacity. It's a huge waste of resources otherwise upgrading 2 extra warehouses + max dump.

      As for ambrosia-only upgrades, I agree with you. There shouldn't be upgrades that you can obtain only with that perk. But realistically it won't be an issue until years later when folks are looking at having all of their towns maxed out. Wherever you spend resources, either on 1 large upgrade or around all of your towns, score is score. The only "unfairness" would come from either an unfair advantage, which there really isn't any building upgraded beyond current max warehouse capacity that could fall into that category. Maybe 1 or 2 wall upgrades and museum upgrades (i've heard it doesn't cap at 20), but neither of those are "game changing" in their benefit compared to someone that chose not to obtain them.


      My buildings guide -- My 0 Military Defense Guide
      * @Lissala slaps ImperialUser around a bit with a large trout
    • I have only one question right now: what's that round thing in the middle-low part of the screen? (navigator, rotate tool)


      Navigator. Check your current world map, there's one in the upper left portion of the screen. Nobody uses it though, except for when they have specific x/y coordinates. It's much easier to grab and drag the map if you're just looking around.
    • Ya but it's also in the town view map. Your guess is as good as anyone elses at this point but my guess is with the "full screen" option you will be able to zoom in and have to move around in your own town view?

      (added)
      It could also just be there for looks, in the town view. That area bellow (really the whole interface) seems kind of blank, and it's something to fill in a gap?


      My buildings guide -- My 0 Military Defense Guide
      * @Lissala slaps ImperialUser around a bit with a large trout