Scientific And Military Future HIgh Level Research

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    • Scientific And Military Future HIgh Level Research

      What is better to do.

      I currently have Scientific Future(SF) at level 6 and Military Future(MF) at level 10. My goal is to upgrade MF as high as I can. I am thinking whether...
      A. To get SF from level 6 to level 10 first then proceed with MF, or...
      B. Forget SF and just keep on upgrading MF only all the way.

      I want to know if SF 6-10 is worth it in the long run. I understand that in infinity upgrading SF first is better. But say in a years time? Two years?

      To do away with it depends comments here are some parameters.
      Assume:
      1. I have 10 level 24 Academies.
      2. I do 300k-crystal experiment every 5 days.
    • Looking at just RP returned, you will never gain more RP then you put into scientific future. The first 2 or 3 are good, maybe even up to 5, but beyond that it isn't worth it. Especially if you are doing experiments because scientific future doesn't increase RP gained from them.

      As they currently are, scientific future is only good for 1 thing. Increasing your score gain to race to #1 TS spot. Lets say you have 2k scientists hired, that's an extra 40 RP an hour. For each Level of scientific future it would take 636 days (just under 2 years) to return the investment. So (exact math aside) it would take 2 years to get as much bonus RP as was spent into level 1, 4 years to gain the RP spent in lvl 2, 6 years for lvl 3 and so on. A bit more exact would be every 4 levels remove a year, so from lvl 4 it would take 7 years not 8 to gain the RP spent on it.


      My buildings guide -- My 0 Military Defense Guide
      * @Lissala slaps ImperialUser around a bit with a large trout
    • So going from level 6 to level 7 alone would take 13 years to recoup the RPs spent and start profiting from the investment. Even when I up my acads to level 30 and get 11 (towns) of them if would still take about 7 years recoup.

      I guess it's a no brainer then. Aside from point-whoring Scientific Future is not worth it past level 4/5. Thanks ImperialUser for the help. Unless others want to add more about the topic you may close this thread, or maybe give it a day.
    • There is one other consideration.

      Gameforge might at any time change the way the benefits for the futures work. As someone has said, it is unlikely they will ever let people have enough military future to have free military.

      Under the current system, the only reason to research science future at a par with other researches is for points, but even then it would be a suspect decision. Eventually it would become worthwhile to research science for points, though.

      The rate of return in gold for military, seafaring, or economic future would be enough to buy crystal and experiment for more research than you would get as a bonus from science future. Once you have researched many levels of those, though, that would probably change, and then researching science would make sense again. And, of course, there are hidden costs in converting crystal to research, but a science bonus happens automatically without needing any ship time or an Optician.
    • Past a certain level (3, 4, 5) I don't see how Science Research can "make sense again" as you stated. Aside from just going for points it doesn't makes sense to research it. It's a waste of time and resources. You'll realize that once you get high level researches. I hope GF make changes to make science research worthwhile.
    • It's from looking at not just the benefit of the research but the cost. For the cost of a lvl 10 research you could research an unresearched future lvls 1-4. So even if you would gain 1000 gold from a military future and 300 from an economic future it would make more sense to go for military future, but gaining 4 economic futures for the same price gives you more "bang for your buck". This doesn't really hold true for scientific future, it's more for the other 3 as they provide a gold bonus. You could compare the gold gained/saved between them and figure out it would be more worth it to research one rather then the other. For this specific example it doesn't really apply to scientific future.


      My buildings guide -- My 0 Military Defense Guide
      * @Lissala slaps ImperialUser around a bit with a large trout
    • I agree IU. With the three other researches (Mil, Sea, Eco) you can make certain choices depending on your current research configuration. With Science all you get is additional research points. Past level say 4 (or 5), it doesn't make sense, nor will it make sense ever.

      Which is why I think it is broken.

      GF might not want to accelerate researching too much hence the nerfing of science research. But it should at least provide compensation for the disproportionate investment put in. Say for example every level also decreases cost of scientists.

      The post was edited 1 time, last by imnotgosu ().

    • Hardly any of the futures "make sense" in terms of how much money you're putting into them and how much you're getting out. Right now, they're only good for points.
    • If you get big enough you are no longer looking into profits. Profits doesn't factor in at that level because mostly there is no more full ROI. However it still make sense because there is nothing else left to do but research.

      The title of this thread is "Scientific And Military Future High Level Research" so as to put things in proper perspective.

      When you have already 11/12 towns, with level 34-36 town halls, and it requires ambrosia for double capacity of warehouses to further upgrade buildings. What's always there to build is research.

      Scientific research stand out as not making sense because it's benefits are relatively very very poor compared to the other three.
    • I think part of the trouble is that we don't yet know whether the futures are capped at some point. If they are not capped, then it can be proven with mathematical certainty that investing in scientific future will eventually (though it may be many years or decades later) yield a higher total amount of research points than if someone just invested in military future. If on the other hand the futures are capped, then it could well be that one will never get any more research done by investing in scientific future beyond a certain point.

      Now a more pertinent question it seems to me is the decision of whether to invest in scientific future first or to upgrade one's academies first. Given that one can have 12 level 32 academies it seems logical to max those out before going too far into the scientific futures since the 2% bonus will go further if it is applied to a larger base. But it does appear that the first three or four levels of scientific future yield more research points per material spent than the very last academy levels.
    • Even if they cap at some point, it's still not worth it to invest in scientific future.

      I can say for certain that they are not capped before lvl 44, which would take someone not pushing resources into experiments at least 10 years. Doing that for both military/scientific futures take some 20 years. Even though I plan to play the long game, idk if I can plan that far ahead. I would hope by then it they would of reworked the futures system to be more useable, CENSORED :ninja2

      Censored
      by Psychopath


      My buildings guide -- My 0 Military Defense Guide
      * @Lissala slaps ImperialUser around a bit with a large trout
    • ImperialUser wrote:

      which would take someone not pushing resources into experiments at least 10 years.


      What do you mean by pushing resources into experiments? Converting resources into crystal to conduct experiments? Because if you aren't talking about converting, I can do it in about 5.5 years without converting crystal. Well actually I could do it significantly quicker than that even, because in the next couple of months I'll raise my crystal production by approx 100k per a day. :)
    • Not just converting, but i meant using a majority of resources in experiments instead of building upgrades. Do you have a lot of crystal towns because that seems a bit quick for just a couple crystal towns. I think the quickest theorized was someone with huge mills/mines, and huge boosters, with 10+ towns, could do it in just under 3 years converting wood to crystal and doing experiments with all their resources. I guess if you did a similar situation but took out the wood conversion that would be about 5-6 years like your estimate.


      My buildings guide -- My 0 Military Defense Guide
      * @Lissala slaps ImperialUser around a bit with a large trout
    • ImperialUser wrote:

      Not just converting, but i meant using a majority of resources in experiments instead of building upgrades. Do you have a lot of crystal towns because that seems a bit quick for just a couple crystal towns. I think the quickest theorized was someone with huge mills/mines, and huge boosters, with 10+ towns, could do it in just under 3 years converting wood to crystal and doing experiments with all their resources. I guess if you did a similar situation but took out the wood conversion that would be about 5-6 years like your estimate.


      Its costs about 900k resources per a day to do it around 2 years. Yes I have 11 crystal colonies. lol
    • On my bigger accounts I usually get military future up to about 5. The smaller ones have 2/3. I also research seafaring future, because I usually have a big fleet. Scientific Future isn't worth imo beyond level 3. But if you really do a lot of research, without using crystal to get the researches, I believe you should get SF to 5.
    • WinnieDePoeh wrote:

      On my bigger accounts I usually get military future up to about 5. The smaller ones have 2/3. I also research seafaring future, because I usually have a big fleet. Scientific Future isn't worth imo beyond level 3. But if you really do a lot of research, without using crystal to get the researches, I believe you should get SF to 5.

      These seem like completely arbitrary end points? How did you decide what the ideal break points are for SF?
    • Scientific future is one of the few things you can calculate with absolute certainty the ROI on, because there is only a limited number of scientists you can have. Other researches it takes more consideration, because you have to value in the value of experiments, but for scientific future it's a strait "how long it will take to regain the RP spent in them". Then just factor in how long you believe you will be playing for, the largest level SF that is under that time frame is your limit. But that's just for paying itself off, if you want to consider profit then you may want to stop a level or 2 before your limit.


      My buildings guide -- My 0 Military Defense Guide
      * @Lissala slaps ImperialUser around a bit with a large trout
    • ImperialUser wrote:

      Scientific future is one of the few things you can calculate with absolute certainty the ROI on, because there is only a limited number of scientists you can have. Other researches it takes more consideration, because you have to value in the value of experiments, but for scientific future it's a strait "how long it will take to regain the RP spent in them". Then just factor in how long you believe you will be playing for, the largest level SF that is under that time frame is your limit. But that's just for paying itself off, if you want to consider profit then you may want to stop a level or 2 before your limit.

      But how many people actually say, "I'm going to play for exactly 2.7 years and then quit"?? Very few people are able to accurately forecast when a game will become boring for them.

      Not to mention that it's not just calculating the RP spent on the SFs, but you also need to include the gold you may have lost out on from the other futures.
    • True, but I think an estimate could be made at the very least. I currently see myself playing for maybe 10 more years. Not that I wouldn't play longer, but that is my rough estimate for what I will be doing in my main account before all my towns are maxed out. And beyond even that fact, I research scientific future because it increases score gains directly unlike the others.

      It really comes down to 1 thing, after lvl 5 futures, what do you plan on doing? Any RoI or benefit needs a base by base conclusion for each player depending on how they plan on develop and use their account. Realisticly speaking, the only thing scientific future offers right now is increased RP production through scientists, so the only thing worth investing in is the other futures.

      Whatever future level you go for, after it's payed itself off it's going to take at least a couple more years to gain any kind of monetary benefit over another player. At the point it pays itself off the only thing you have gained from it is "free" score in having scientific future level X. Once that point has been passed you still need to gain at least 1 more "free" future level in another field before you have gained an advantage beyond increased score from researching scientific futures.


      My buildings guide -- My 0 Military Defense Guide
      * @Lissala slaps ImperialUser around a bit with a large trout