Paddleboats should not defend ports!

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    • Paddleboats should not defend ports!

      I really, really hate the immortal paddleboat exploit... I think it should be fixed. Either a) non front line units should not stop trade ships from entering a port or b) non-front line boats faced with a battle get destroyed.


      It's really silly that people can put 1 speedboat in their port and have it be an immortal defender.. returning every four hours without fail.

      It's also a really easy way to protect your other ships if you need to rebuild your front line. You can have any number of rockets, subs, bombers, paddleboats, and tenders in a port, and if there's no ship that can go in the front line in port, they can't be attacked.

      I can't imagine that's the intended use of the ships.
    • Hi wildfire,


      A few things:


      Firstly can you explain how your suggestion does not fulfill the following dead end idea?

      Any suggestion that would completely nullify the need to have/use anything currently in the game.
      If your suggest removes the purpose of an aspect of the game - removing the need for it - it ruins game balance.

      Examples:
      • Suggesting "better" stats for low units
        Low units are supposed to be low units. They cost relatively little to obtain/maintain, and are designed as filler until you advance enough to build something better. Suggesting a "better unit" which has no abilities not already represented by another pre-existing, higher-end unit is an exercise in futility.

      • Suggesting a new unit/building that removes the need for another pre-existing unit/building
        The whole game is deliberately balanced. Make sure your proposed unit or building does not upset that balance by being too powerful or not having a drawback of some kind.

      • Anything that similarly disrupts game balance
        This includes suggestions for game-play features only useful for new players, since the suggestion becomes obsolete as the player progresses.

      Secondly where do we draw the line here? Just paddle-wheels - or does it extend to all non-front line units such as dives, tenders, rockets, etc.? What about land units that are non-front line that people separate out to defend? Should they also not scatter? I am not even certain this is possible - as it would require these ships to behave differently in only one situation (guarding home ports). That is another good question - should this go for any port they are stationed in and why?

      Do not meddle with dragons, for you are crunchy and good with ketchup.
      :turkeydance: I'm just a small turkeh, how much trouble could I get into? :turkeydance:
    • I think any unit that can't fight shouldn't win... that's the bottom line. My point is that paddle boats are supposed to be a crappy unit, they only serve to counter bombers... they should be able to occupy ports. You can't occupy an empty city with a gyro on land. Maybe have the special ability NOT to go to the front line... that would make them have some usefulness other than the ship you make if you're out of sulphur.

      The other issue is one of order of attack. Even if you send other paddle boats, you can't kill a single one.... it scatters... having units be immortal do to turn order seems silly to me. I don't think that was the designers intent, I think it's an exploit of a situation that wasn't considered when the new sea combat was put in.

      Every unit has stats to 'ram' or whatever, so maybe ANY ship should go to the front line in there is no front line... that would work.

      For land units.. they DO scatter if you don't have front line... I've tried rebelling with just artillery against a cook and had my guys be the ones that scatter.


      Does that answer your questions?
    • You answered the second question, but not the first. How does this not violate the dead end idea? It is less suggesting something, and more stating something should be changed or removed, which would be better served in feedback. Do you have a specific suggestion for adding something to the game? Or a specific suggestion on how this unit would change to accommodate this but not violate other things?

      Do not meddle with dragons, for you are crunchy and good with ketchup.
      :turkeydance: I'm just a small turkeh, how much trouble could I get into? :turkeydance:
    • In respective order
      1 better stats arent being proposed
      2 he is saying he paddle is too powerful because of this exploitation
      3 it would then be used the way it was supposed to

      Then again, i know this is realism but the paddle boats are the fastest arnt they. They could just swim around everything

      The post was edited 1 time, last by DrOtaku116 ().

    • If were going to talk about Immortal ships than we have to start with the Subs. I guess Paddle Boats are the new Sub when it comes to a 4 hr pillage window.

      Its been exploited for awhile now.
    • Subs aren't immortal anymore... that got fixed with the last update, which is good.

      Let me re-word my suggestion, perhaps that will make it clearer.


      Step 1: I'm suggesting Paddleboats behave like gyros, so that they are NOT able to occupy a port by themselves. Right now they can, and I think that makes them overpowered.

      Step 2: Paddlewheel boats should be able to be attacked (and killed) by other paddlewheel boats, even in fights where there is no front line ships. As it is now, they scatter before the first shot, making them immortal if they are by themselves. Many people use this exploit to guard their ports, so that a potential attacker/pillager MUST take the port before attacking, even though the ship defending can't attack anything.
    • Your suggestion was clear the first time around. My point being is that they behave Exactly like gyros already. Can you leave a gyro to hold an occupation? Yes. Do they also scatter if a rebellion is held? Yes. Does this in fact also make gyros by themselves immortal? Yes. So again my question is where do we draw the line and on which units? The only difference, really, is an attack where the wall is concerned.

      Do not meddle with dragons, for you are crunchy and good with ketchup.
      :turkeydance: I'm just a small turkeh, how much trouble could I get into? :turkeydance:
    • Subs aren't immortal anymore... that got fixed with the last update, which is good.
      They're not? If someone left a lone sub in their port years ago, it's still there and still can't be destroyed. It's just that now we have more choices on which boat to leave in our harbor to be a permanent annoyance.


      And this is a game anyway, so it's not exactly an example of realistic combat from the ancient world. (Rocket ships anyone? ;) )

      sig by Checkmate

      I dug my key into the side
      Of his pretty little souped-up four-wheel drive,
      Carved my name into his leather seats...
      I took a Louisville slugger to both headlights,
      Slashed a hole in all four tires...
      Maybe next time he'll think before he cheats
    • JuneBarcarolle wrote:

      Subs aren't immortal anymore... that got fixed with the last update, which is good.
      They're not? If someone left a lone sub in their port years ago, it's still there and still can't be destroyed. It's just that now we have more choices on which boat to leave in our harbor to be a permanent annoyance.


      And this is a game anyway, so it's not exactly an example of realistic combat from the ancient world. (Rocket ships anyone? ;) )


      +1 - I dont see this suggestion going anywhere. This is a 'situation' we all on ikariam have played with for.. what 2 years now? I got use to it.

      @June - I like the oldies.. Steam Giants lol.
    • Gyros cannot attack and occupy a town... paddleboats CAN attack and occupy an empty port... at least they did before the most recent update... I haven't had it come up since.

      Paddleboats are a bit different than subs were before due to their speed... you can sneak them into places very quickly and easily.

      I've haven't had anyone try to hold an occupation with just a gyro, so I can't say whether that's true or not, to be honest.

      For subs, if you attack a single sub with front line units and bombers, it'll die...that's why I'd like to see for the paddleboats, too.. if you attack with other paddleboats and some front line unit, it should die... I know it works for gyros when attacking, but in the case the wall serves as the front line.. not sure about gyros alone, since no one ever does that.

      The post was edited 1 time, last by Wildfire2099 ().

    • Lulz apparently people in Omicron don't use that much strategy when they're just one-troop occupying.

      same w/ docs n cooks.

      I don't see a need for this at all and you've yet to mention where the line is drawn therefore I simply do not see any reason at all to give you, in the future or currently higher than a zero.


      Sig by June 8)
      Love is like air, without it... I die.

      spaPOT wrote:

      no worriess..you see im a kid thats why im dumb..kuku :pillepalle:
    • dangderr wrote:

      I'm pretty sure a lone gyro can occupy a town, as long as there are no defending units. That includes walls.


      We should test this theory, it seem important to this debate.

      If gyros can occupy a town with no troops and no walls, then they do, in fact, work the same way that the paddle boats do.

      If they do not, then paddle boats are naval units, and for some reason do not behave the same way that land units do.

      Also, trade ships have no attack/defense/hit points. If it were possible for trade ships to scatter paddle boats, then trade ships would have to have attack point value, defense point value, and HIT POINT VALUE, which means you would be able to DESTROY trade ships. Personally, I do not want to lose a unit that costs 100s of thousands of gold.
    • Yah most of the new players on the newer servers are just players from failed servers. Most have really no strategic knowledge of the game and think wars are just week long damage count BS. And fighting in wars is done in huge dogpile fashion to show who is the 'most skilled warrior'.

      Some boast because they have the highest military score. Which is builder bob syndrome.

      This is a failed suggestion. Someone knock down their wall and see if ONLY gyros can actually occupy a town, lol. NOT IT!
    • You know back in the day dive boats use to be used this way, speed boats are just cheaper.

      I see what you're saying as about they should be destroyed, I kinda agree but not sure it's a big enough issue to deal with.
      Speak softly and carry a big stick.
      Carsten van Husen: We employee some of the most skilled howler monkeys bandanna's can buy!; Sure they have an unnatural fascination with their own excrement and a compulsion to throw it, But we're still the most innovative simian based company in the industry.
    • For sake of argument, paddles are already the anti-paddle. It's a fundamental part of combat that only if there's a frontline or longrange unit will any battle take place. If the player is still active, have a non-allied friend defend their port with a ram and you'll kill the paddle. (Assuming you have enough paddles.)


      Heather wrote:

      But baka, how can you be the cop if you're not playing?

      HaNs Na MiTrAljEzU wrote:

      But then again, knowing Kaleg, it could also mean we're all screwed later.