Revamping Wonder system

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    • Revamping Wonder system

      I posted this in Brainstorm because my idea is broken into 2 parts and needs feedback/modifications before I submit it. My idea revolves around the fact that the current Wonder system is flawed/imbalanced. Namely, only a few are really used while the others sit with neglect. So the first part of my idea is my proposal to revamp the current system, which I detailed below. The second part is where I really could use feedback and help on since I would like to take the Wonder system and expand it to Alliances.

      Part 1:

      Temple of Ares:
      Wonder Effect: Increases movement speed of land units
      Description: Ares, God of War, instills the lust for battle in your troops, thereby increasing their movement speed.
      Duration: 4 hours with a 24 hour cooldown.
      Level 1: +10% movement speed
      Level 2: +30% movement speed
      Level 3: +50% movement speed
      Level 4: +70% movement speed
      Level 5: +100% movement speed

      Temple of Helios(Colossus):
      Wonder Effect: Increases building material output.
      Description: The searing light of the Sun God Helios lights the sky for your citizens, enabling them to work longer at cutting trees and growing new ones.
      Duration: 24 hours with a 1 week cooldown.
      Level 1: +20% production
      Level 2: +40% production
      Level 3: +60% production
      Level 4: +80% production
      Level 5: +100% production

      Temple of Demeter:
      Wonder Effect: Increases luxury good output.
      Description: Demeter, Goddess of the Harvest, blesses the land for those faithful to her. Upon her whim, the productivity for workers gathering luxury goods is increased.
      Duration: 24 hours with a 1 week cooldown.
      Level 1: +20% production
      Level 2: +40% production
      Level 3: +60% production
      Level 4: +80% production
      Level 5: +100% production

      Temple of Hades:
      Wonder Effect: Increases Damage of Military Units.
      Description: Hades, Lord of the Underworld and God of the Dead, enjoys watching bloodshed as it adds subjects to his dominion. Those who worship him are granted the ability to dispatch their foes with far greater ease.
      Duration: 24 hours with 1 week cooldown.
      Level 1: +2% damage
      Level 2: +4% damage
      Level 3: +6% damage
      Level 4: +10% damage
      Level 5: +20% damage

      Temple of Hephaestus:
      Wonder Effect: Increases Armor of Military Units.
      Description: Warfare is a deadly and costly business and those who worship Hephaestus, God of Blacksmiths, are fortunate to go into battle with enhanced armor forged from enchanted hammers and other blessed material granted from the God himself.
      Duration: 24 hours with 1 week cooldown.
      Level 1: +1 armor
      Level 2: +1 armor
      Level 3: +2 armor
      Level 4: +3 armor
      Level 5: +5 armor

      Temple of Athena:
      Wonder Effect: Increases amount of resources protected within Warehouses.
      Description: Athena, Goddess of Wisdom and Strategy, blesses those who worship her with the ability to hide things in plain sight.
      Duration: 24 hours with 1 week cooldown.
      Level 1: +40% secure resources
      Level 2: +80% secure resources
      Level 3: +160% secure resources
      Level 4: +240% secure resources
      Level 5: +400% secure resources

      Temple of Hermes:
      Wonder Effect: Increases loading speed of Trade Ports
      Description: Hermes, messenger of the Gods, is always on the move and despises waiting. Therefore those who worship him are bestowed with the ability to move goods quickly, hence increasing the loading speed of Trade Ports.
      Duration: 4 hours with 1 day cooldown.
      Level 1: +40% loading speed
      Level 2: +80% loading speed
      Level 3: +120% loading speed
      Level 4: +160% loading speed
      Level 5: +200% loading speed

      Temple of Poseidon:
      Wonder Effect: Increases movement speed of Naval and Merchant units.
      Description: Poseidon, God of the Seas, bestows upon those who worship him calm seas and a brisk wind, thereby enabling their ships to reach their destination faster.
      Duration: 4 hours with 1 day cooldown.
      Level 1: +10% movement speed
      Level 2: +30% movement speed
      Level 3: +50% movement speed
      Level 4: +70% movement speed
      Level 5: +100% movement speed

      Part 2:

      When expanding wonders to include Alliances, I've had trouble taking my thoughts and putting them in writing so bear with me. What I would like to do is that in addition to the current system, Wonders will occasionally "bless" or "enchant" towns on the island with Temples. If your town doesn't have a Temple, it is not a candidate. Enchanting only starts when the Wonder is upgraded to level 5, so its dormant until that is achieved. Once a Wonder hits level 5, it will randomly select one town on the island for enchantment every 24-48 hours with the enchantment lasting 72 hours(so the same town can't be picked twice in a row). Odds of being enchanted will be based largely on how many citizens you have worshiping the Island God divided by the total number of citizens in towns with Temples(kind of like how your share of island faith is calculated if that makes any sense). More towns you have, the better the odds you will have a town enchanted and the larger your towns are, the greater the odds since you will have more citizens worshiping the god.

      Should one of your towns be enchanted, you will have the option of building and upgrading a special building exclusive to the God in question. This building, call it a Shrine unless a better name comes along, will generate Faith of that particular God for your Alliance. Should your Alliance be generating Faith in a God, that particular God will bestow upon all members of the Alliance a passive bonus that increases as the Alliance's Faith grows. Furthermore, this could be used as a means of determining a winner on a world. Namely, the first Alliance to achieve at least 100% Faith(overflow is ok but not factored into the passive buff) and a level 10 Shrine in all 8 Gods is proclaimed Rulers of Ancient Greece.



      As to what faith each level of Shrine would generate, I was thinking something along the lines of the following:


      Level 1: 1% Faith
      Level 2: 2% Faith
      Level 3: 3% Faith
      Level 4: 5% Faith
      Level 5: 7% Faith
      Level 6: 9% Faith
      Level 7: 12% Faith
      Level 8: 16% Faith
      Level 9: 20% Faith
      Level 10: 25% Faith


      The power of these Shrines would obviously dictate that they have a very high cost and I was thinking along the lines of a Palace/GR upgrade, if not more. Below is what I was thinking with regards to the passive effects the Gods would bestow:


      Note: Effects stack with activating a wonder:
      Ares: +50% Movement speed at max Faith or 1% for every 2% Faith.
      Helios: +100% building material at max Faith or 1% for every 1% Faith.
      Demeter: +100% luxury goods at max Faith or 1% for every 1% Faith.
      Hades: +20% Damage at max Faith or 1% every 5% Faith.
      Hephaestus: +5 Armor at max Faith or +1 Armor every 20% Faith.
      Hermes: +100% loading speed at max Faith or 1% every 1% Faith.
      Poseidon: +50% Movement speed at max Faith or 1% every 2% Faith.
    • [turkeh] Unfortunately most of your proposals fall under dead end ideas, which I'll explain below. However, I will allow this brainstorming idea to remain open to figure out ideas to revamp the wonder system that aren't these specific ideas, found the idea of splitting up the functions of the forge intriguing, as well as the idea to randomly enchant a town on an island.[/turkeh]

      DarkHelmet wrote:

      Temple of Ares:
      Wonder Effect: Increases movement speed of land units
      Description: Ares, God of War, instills the lust for battle in your troops, thereby increasing their movement speed.
      Duration: 4 hours with a 24 hour cooldown.
      Level 1: +10% movement speed

      Nothing that saves you hard, ingame work
      That's right - you're supposed to make some efforts to play Ikariam. Basically, things are the way they are to make you work to get them. If you suggest an easier method to achieve some effect already present in the game, you remove the need for it; thus potentially taking away some of the advantage that better players (who have worked hard for their account) have.

      [turkeh] This duplicates the poseidon wonder which is scarce for a reason. Scarcity means people must make strategic choices to choose one thing over the other (do I choose a closeby island or place this town 5 islands away for the poseidon?) Can't just say "I want more of this wonder I really like" without giving a justification as to why it's needed and how it will not unbalance the game.[/turkeh]

      DarkHelmet wrote:

      Temple of Helios(Colossus):
      Wonder Effect: Increases building material output.
      Description: The searing light of the Sun God Helios lights the sky for your citizens, enabling them to work longer at cutting trees and growing new ones.
      Duration: 24 hours with a 1 week cooldown.
      Level 1: +20% production
      Anything that gives away a pay-to-use (P2P) option for free
      • Plus feature(s)
        Some users want to access the convenient features of Ikariam Plus, and pay real world money to do so. That is their choice. (That money goes towards the upkeep of the servers, so in essence they are paying for the bit of extra space taken up for them to have such features.) If you want to have those same features, you can buy them too.

      • Increased resource-gathering, Premium Trader
        Same as above. Extra resources and premium trades are not necessary to successfully play the game, but some players value these options and purchase Ambrosia to access them. (These players are not "cheaters" but are helping pay for upkeep of the servers, which YOU get to use for free.) Again, if you wish to have those bonus features, you can purchase Ambrosia.

      [turkeh] This would duplicate both the existing Helios tower as well as the sawmill/lux producers - both pay to use features. This also goes for your Demeter suggestion. [/turkeh]

      Do not meddle with dragons, for you are crunchy and good with ketchup.
      :turkeydance: I'm just a small turkeh, how much trouble could I get into? :turkeydance:
    • Ares: Intriguing but the most tine it'll ever save a units is 15 minutes unless you apply it to white flagged units you'll be waving back in.

      Collosus: This wonder is already useful and one I like to have in times of need or if I want to waste the enemy's gold. (Scatter and return time.) With what you're suggesting it would become much less useful.

      Demeter: Due to the cooldown, only a builder could find this useful. As I'm not a builder, I can't.comment fully but I can see dedication to it as a MASSIVE production boost. But alas it's a dead-end idea. How about just increasing current effects?

      Hades: Very interesting.

      Forge: Very powerful at lv. 5 + lv. 5 Hades. But it would be WAY too imbalanced. 5 armor is too much. For furtger discussion, damage = attack - armor. Also, as on many servers people are forge-based, this would really increase battle length.

      Athena: OK

      Hermes: Still relatively useless.

      Poseidon: OK

      One thing to keep in mind is that changingvthe effects of wonders can get people mad. All.of the sudden a person who's focused on forge needs Hades. The person who got a collosus all of the sudden has a useless temple because of the cooldown.if they aren't collosus based. One thing to keep in mind.

      Part 2: I've read this and I'm still like what? I'll wait to read someone else's post who understands it more to comment on it.


      Heather wrote:

      But baka, how can you be the cop if you're not playing?

      HaNs Na MiTrAljEzU wrote:

      But then again, knowing Kaleg, it could also mean we're all screwed later.
    • He has not changed Athena

      and GF has already changed the wonders on us a couple of time. NOT PRETTY Let's not ask them to do it again.

      automeris wrote:

      And I will tell you, I bet most of the people who have left, and many staying including myself, will NEVER try out another gameforge game. I have already looked at games on the web and just closed the browser window when I saw that GF was involved. One experience with this management style is enough for a lifetime.


      The post was edited 1 time, last by Svana ().

    • I can understand the reluctance of changing the wonders(heck I can remember when they changed all those 10% boost to production) and the uproar it caused. The reason why I'd like to overhaul the wonders is because Hephaestus, Helios(Colossus) and Poseidon are the only Wonders/Gods being used. The fact players aren't utilizing the other wonders should be cause to look into there effects and changing them to something players would be willing to use.

      As of right now, the most useless Wonder of all is Hades. Who doesn't want more Marble but to get Marble units for all dead soldiers on the battlefield? What if I am losing that battle? That would mean more Marble for the enemy to pillage and hence I would not gain the full benefit of the wonder.Furthermore, why battle other players for resources when I can get resources simply by doing piracy :lol: Being that Hades is the God of Death I thought he should instill in your soldiers the means in which to kill others. Unfortunately, that would mean splitting up the effects of Hephaestus unless you want Hades AND Hephaestus effects to stack with respect to damage.

      As for Ares, the morale boost is just as useless, if not more so, because it is so easy to maintain Morale in this game since SUPPORT UNITS CAN'T DIE. If Cooks and Tenders(since they effect Morale on their respective battlefield) were defeatable(say if you broke through on the Flanks they targeted support before range or Bombers targeted Support instead of Artillery first), then I could see the need for Ares to maintain Morale. Otherwise, what's the point in having a Morale Wonder since its far cheaper to have cooks and tenders than it is to pay all those priests to convert your citizens). I changed Ares to land move speed because it would have a benefit before and after battle, although they would still move at the speed of Trade Ships if they were sent along with the wave.

      Helios(Colossus): This is probably the most controversial change of all as people actually use it. However, I find the Wonder to be too powerful and frankly a coward's way off the battlefield without suffering the consequences. I mean if a player doesn't want to fight, move your army or hit the white flag and suffer the consequences of running away. However, I am open to keeping the effects the same and simply moving Building Material production over to Demeter(where she would increase production of all goods by x%).

      Demeter: As it stands right now, Demeter is hardly used, if at all. The extra population boost is only really useful in times of war since you need those extra citizens asap for more troops. However, I can gain that same effect by simply upgrading my Tavern/Museums and increasing their secondary effects, if only for a few hours. Hence I changed the effect to luxury production since Demeter is the Goddess of the Harvest and hence felt the increase in production was her forte. Initially I have her boosting luxury production but am open to changing it to all production if you feel the Colossus effect shouldn't be altered.

      As for it being similar to a P2P feature, so what if it is? Dead End Ideas is more so a guideline rather than a strict rule and to say that Dead End Idea's hasn't been violated in the past is laughable(GF pretty much ignored/annihilated the one for Ogame). Wonders in the past used to boost production and I am suggesting bringing it back. To say that my idea shouldn't be implemented because it would reduce the purchases of P2P features is doltish. People buy P2P features because they enjoy the game and GF has only shot themselves in the foot with their latest features/enhancements. If GF wants to boost sales of Ambrosia, make the game more enjoyable. Slow, if not halt opening new servers, offer enhanced godly protection and/or bigger Ambrosia reward for new players completing the in-game Tutorial and quit implementing features that imbalance the game(like the current form of Piracy). The best argument against putting production on Wonders is that it would lower/remove the value of city boosters(since a player can achieve what they want in all towns without having to build a booster in each town).

      Athena/Hermes/Poseidon: Didn't change these so no need for discussion.
    • let me interject

      Demeter has been muted...she used to give you more people...if I remember correctly you could have more than 28 per hour. Now? she is not worth funding because I can get a better increase by upping my wine usage. I tried her out and deleted the temple when they lowered her increase.

      Ares used to give support to someone attacking a town without cooks...but they changed it so that it only affects your towns which is why no one uses it NOW.

      I use Athena...so of course I would like them to cut the cool down but I am in a minority and I have other things I would rather they focus on.

      No way would I use Hades...for exactly the reason you said. I don't want to give marble to my enemy. I have never used Hades

      I don't use Hermes either...just not worth the gold.

      so really none of these are worth the time spent on changing them. This is change just for the sake of change...which is what they did when they changed the things in the first place...bad idea.

      automeris wrote:

      And I will tell you, I bet most of the people who have left, and many staying including myself, will NEVER try out another gameforge game. I have already looked at games on the web and just closed the browser window when I saw that GF was involved. One experience with this management style is enough for a lifetime.


    • Hades is useless? Really? Maybe because you don't know how and when to use it? Will enemy pillage you in the sea battle as well?
      "The difference between stupidity and genius is that genius has its limits."
      (c) Albert Einstein

      The post was edited 1 time, last by Draxo ().

    • glad you found a use for it.

      I produce enough marble that I haven't.

      automeris wrote:

      And I will tell you, I bet most of the people who have left, and many staying including myself, will NEVER try out another gameforge game. I have already looked at games on the web and just closed the browser window when I saw that GF was involved. One experience with this management style is enough for a lifetime.


    • I think you should just leave the other wonders just the way they are now except Ares, all of the wonders have their own use, depending on the player's game style. except Ares, which it's miracle can be provided by mere cooks!!!!!!! And I dont see any strategy you can employ using Ares... I mean, since Ares can only be activated form your own cities..... why the hell would you separate your cook from your army if you have confidence from it? And who the dummy would attack w/o cook???? So when can you use Ares REALLy? you bothered on many wonders when you can only focus on one that desperately needs modification. hahaha
    • Svana wrote:

      He has not changed Athena

      and GF has already changed the wonders on us a couple of time. NOT PRETTY Let's not ask them to do it again.

      yeah.. kind of miss the old wonders... they were so much better than this whole current system
    • Sorry for having not been around the past few days(been busy) but the gist of what I can tell from the replies is that the Wonders could use a tweak but due to the botched job GF did last time, there is much reservation or hesitation in trusting GF to get it right the next time correct? If so, I still think they need to be changed, if only to add some balance into wonder utilization. Otherwise, one could argue to remove them altogether.




      Also, no one cares to comment on the 2nd part of my idea?

      The post was edited 1 time, last by DarkHelmet ().

    • I think this |dead end ideas" restriction is really killing good ideas and preventing players from getting what they want.
      In my eyes, I'd rather have lots of users spending a little amborisa than a few users spending lots. Ikariam has been modified so much, but at the same time after I came back nothing much had changed. It seems like every little tweek is just forcing more people to leave, but the game isn't evolving well enough to attract new players and keep current ones.

      Some Things Are Better Forgotten

      -Original 2009 ViP Delta and DARK Iota Player-
    • I totally argree with what ODST just said and to be honest game is only for people who spend ambrosia. If you use Ambrosia you will get more benefits then the ones who DONT. I would say the only step forward the game just make is the animations part and they have not even make it realistic. :(
    • You realize p2p is like that because it keeps the game running right? I mean, basic logic, not even my degree can tell you that. Please stop making yourself seem absolutely (insert the warning I'd have gotten here)


      Sig by June 8)
      Love is like air, without it... I die.

      spaPOT wrote:

      no worriess..you see im a kid thats why im dumb..kuku :pillepalle:

      The post was edited 1 time, last by bamcbix ().

    • A company can still make a profit while not making paying rntirely all powerful. I played a game (non-GF) whdre without ever paying I made it up to 10/14 ranked of active players. Another non-payer was 6/8 and a person who'd only spent $4 was 5/6. This was on that games only active server with about 200 active accounts. I started about 2 months in to the game's existence and played over 7 months. (To avoid any short-term claims.) I don't the company's exact profits, but at the time I left they were opening their second game to Beta Testing. So GF-style isn't needed to be profitable, but on the other hand it might be the most profitable? Just figured I'd throw in an example.


      Heather wrote:

      But baka, how can you be the cop if you're not playing?

      HaNs Na MiTrAljEzU wrote:

      But then again, knowing Kaleg, it could also mean we're all screwed later.
    • ARES REVAMP v2.0

      Conquistador wrote:

      I think you should just leave the other wonders just the way they are now except Ares, all of the wonders have their own use, depending on the player's game style. except Ares, which it's miracle can be provided by mere cooks!!!!!!! And I dont see any strategy you can employ using Ares... I mean, since Ares can only be activated form your own cities..... why the hell would you separate your cook from your army if you have confidence from it? And who the dummy would attack w/o cook???? So when can you use Ares REALLy? you bothered on many wonders when you can only focus on one that desperately needs modification. hahaha
      So true....I truly believe that this is the wonder that really needs fixing...So i suggest the following effect:

      Effect: prevent players(both defender and attacker) from retreating once battle commences
      Duration 30 min,60,90,120,150 for level 1 to 5 faith level..note: 1 round = 15 mins
      Cooldown: 3 days

      I proposed the above for the following reasons:

      1. To match the original ares description found in the game
      Ares, the detested God of savage warfare, blood-lust and of massacre,
      fills the hearts of all warriors in the vicinity of your cities with
      pure hate. These warriors will then charge into bloody combat without a
      second thought to their own healths, until no man is left standing.

      2. To give the defenders side more edge..more edge for the defender prevent smaller players from often pillaging from bigger players
      3. To even out the disadvantage of the defenders from attackers who are expert in waving(this especially good for one on one battles)
      4. Becoz its WAY better than just increasing the morale of your units-

      I already brought this out some time ago..wasnt expounded though becoz it was posted in the wrong section.. :evilgrin: :evilgrin: :lol:

      comments any1?
    • This is honestly ranking high in the list of worst ideas&reasonings I've ever seen.

      CentroiDxx wrote:

      Effect: prevent players(both defender and attacker) from retreating once battle commences
      Duration 30 min,60,90,120,150 for level 1 to 5 faith level..note: 1 round = 15 mins
      Cooldown: 3 days

      Ever hear of a thing called strategic waves or quick battles? This kills the small battle that wins in damage because it's short,

      CentroiDxx wrote:

      2. To give the defenders side more edge..more edge for the defender prevent smaller players from often pillaging from bigger players

      If they need more help than being bigger, sonething's wrong.

      CentroiDxx wrote:

      3. To even out the disadvantage of the defenders from attackers who are expert in waving(this especially good for one on one battles)

      So you're going to help the defender by taking away their capacity to wave while the attacker can still wave in from other cities? :pillepalle:

      I'll let others take it from here,


      Heather wrote:

      But baka, how can you be the cop if you're not playing?

      HaNs Na MiTrAljEzU wrote:

      But then again, knowing Kaleg, it could also mean we're all screwed later.
    • Kaleg Nar wrote:

      Kaleg Nar wrote:

      This is honestly ranking high in the list of worst ideas&reasonings I've ever seen.



      Quoted from "CentroiDxx"

      Effect: prevent players(both defender and attacker) from retreating once battle commences

      Duration 30 min,60,90,120,150 for level 1 to 5 faith level..note: 1 round = 15 mins

      Cooldown: 3 days





      Ever hear of a thing called strategic waves or quick battles? This kills the small battle that wins in damage because it's short,
      really?kaleg nar?u have a better idea then?or maybe ur too fascinated
      with the current effect that ur actually contented with it..

      also..ever heard of lower level colossus dat can break ur STRATEGIC wave?so whats wrong with adding another wonder that could?

      short battles comes with quick attack and retreat..but full waved battles takes a lot longer..meaning if u plan a full wave battle then then quick and short battles aint gonna happen

      Kaleg Nar wrote:

      Quoted from "CentroiDxx"

      2. To give the defenders side more edge..more edge for the defender prevent smaller players from often pillaging from bigger players





      If they need more help than being bigger, sonething's wrong.
      REad again..the one that is wrong is only your READING comprehension

      Kaleg Nar wrote:

      Quoted from "CentroiDxx"

      3. To even out the disadvantage of the defenders from attackers who are expert in waving(this especially good for one on one battles)





      So you're going to help the defender by taking away their capacity to wave while the attacker can still wave in from other cities? :pillepalle:



      I'll let others take it from here,
      once again?...man of all peple who could actually comment..the one with the smallest brain did...
      see the effffect i mentioned??u can actually wave kaleg..its just dat u
      cant retreat it for sometme..dats why u theres a duration..if wonder is activated..then you just have to change strategy..or w8 for the duration to pass

      and attaker can wave but defender could not?...the heck did dat come from...


      IF u dont like the idea..why not suggest a better one??? :P :dead: :dead: