Revamping Wonder system

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    • lamentation wrote:

      Kaleg Nar wrote:

      If those were on top of the current effects, meh. But if you want to replace them. NO! We've built our empires around wonders, the fool who wants another huge change to wonders, even the useful ones, is just plain :crazy:

      Though here's an idea for Ares

      Effect: Reduction on maintenance for your troops

      20%: the gold costs of your forces is reduced by an additional 5%
      40%: the gold costs of your forces is reduced by an additional 10%
      60%: the gold costs of your forces is reduced by an additional 15%
      80%: the gold costs of your forces is reduced by an additional 20%
      100%: the gold costs of your forces is reduced by an additional 25%

      Duration: 7 Days
      Cooldown: 3 weeks

      This would be a wonder aimed at promoting larger armies in wartime. It's cooldown is made so that if someone really wants a frequent cost reduction, they will have to sack other useful wonders such as Forge and therefore lose on damage.

      Interesting idea but way too powerful, especially for large players. Change it to reduce only the extra upkeep on troops out of town, and change up the duration/cool ratio closer to Forge (1D/7D).

      I also have reservations about the idea of a gold-based miracle targeted for fighters anyway. I think gold SHOULD be a problem for fighters, to force them to interact with other players in the game in aspects beyond fighting.
      I nerfed his percentages since they were too high/powerful but the duration should be changed, as you pointed out, to mirror Hephaestus. I didn't think about it affecting only the upkeep of troops that were out fighting or deployed, which would enable players to deploy more troops than they normally could but not increase the size of ones military too much.
    • A big thing for me is the wonders.

      I don't mind if they have actively triggered effects (like the current colossus or hephaestus ones), but I think they should have passive effects too.

      I think all of the current effects except hephaestus' forge and the colossus are better done as incremented passive effects. (But which only effect towns on the island occupied by the wonder.)

      Ares - increase combat morale

      Athena - increase research points

      Demeter - increase population speed

      Hades - increase faith

      Helios - increase speed of loading time

      Hephaestus - increase number of secure resources

      Hermes - increase counter-espionage

      Poseidon - increase trade ship speed

      -----------------

      And for effects triggered by temple (which presumably affect all the player's towns):

      Ares - increase offence

      Athena - increase defence

      Demeter - increase cooks' effectiveness

      Hades - casualties to marble for wall (Though I would like something better than this.)

      Helios - repel combatants (current colossus)

      Hephaestus - increase armour

      Hermes - increase doctors' effectiveness

      Poseidon - increase war ship speed

      Thoughts welcome

      The post was edited 1 time, last by skyhawk ().

    • skyhawk wrote:

      A big thing for me is the wonders.

      I don't mind if they have actively triggered effects (like the current colossus or hephaestus ones), but I think they should have passive effects too.

      I think all of the current effects except hephaestus' forge and the colossus are better done as incremented passive effects. (But which only effect towns on the island occupied by the wonder.)

      Ares - increase combat morale

      Athena - increase research points

      Demeter - increase population speed

      Hades - increase faith

      Helios - increase speed of loading time

      Hephaestus - increase number of secure resources

      Hermes - increase counter-espionage

      Poseidon - increase trade ship speed

      -----------------

      And for effects triggered by temple (which presumably affect all the player's towns):

      Ares - increase offence

      Athena - increase defence

      Demeter - increase cooks' effectiveness

      Hades - casualties to marble for wall (Though I would like something better than this.)

      Helios - repel combatants (current colossus)

      Hephaestus - increase armour

      Hermes - increase doctors' effectiveness

      Poseidon - increase war ship speed

      Thoughts welcome
      Isn't increasing the defense the same as increasing armor or do you mean safe storage? :P Also, how would increasing the effectiveness of support units be valuable? They can't die and you only need so many. If Doctors could revive dead troops(like they used to if memory serves) and a Wonder increased their effectiveness at healing but also reviving, then yeah I could see a use. I thought about adding passive effects but got a lukewarm response. The passive effect to Faith intrigues me though(as does research).
    • (chagrined look)

      that's what I get for going from memory...

      "D" could be damage or defence. 50/50 chance and I picked the wrong one : )

      as for docs and cooks, this could be implemented, and hopefully later they could fix the docs in some update once they've gone over the numbers more thoroughly : )

      But ok, let's drop those.

      And I swapped Hades active and passive.

      Anyway, here's an updated list : )

      -----------------------
      Ares - increase combat morale

      Athena - increase research points

      Demeter - increase population speed

      Hades - casualties to marble for wall (Though I would like something better than this.)

      Helios - increase speed of loading time

      Hephaestus - increase number of secure resources

      Hermes - increase counter-espionage

      Poseidon - increase trade ship speed

      -----------------

      And for effects triggered by temple (which presumably affect all the player's towns):

      Ares - increase combat morale to 100% (current effect)

      Athena - increase armour

      Demeter - increase happiness

      Hades - increase faith

      Helios - repel combatants (current colossus)

      Hephaestus - increase damage

      Hermes - increase accuracy

      Poseidon - increase war ship speed
    • skyhawk wrote:

      (chagrined look)

      that's what I get for going from memory...

      "D" could be damage or defence. 50/50 chance and I picked the wrong one : )

      as for docs and cooks, this could be implemented, and hopefully later they could fix the docs in some update once they've gone over the numbers more thoroughly : )

      But ok, let's drop those.

      And I swapped Hades active and passive.

      Anyway, here's an updated list : )

      -----------------------
      Ares - increase combat morale

      Athena - increase research points

      Demeter - increase population speed

      Hades - casualties to marble for wall (Though I would like something better than this.)

      Helios - increase speed of loading time

      Hephaestus - increase number of secure resources

      Hermes - increase counter-espionage

      Poseidon - increase trade ship speed

      -----------------

      And for effects triggered by temple (which presumably affect all the player's towns):

      Ares - increase combat morale to 100% (current effect)

      Athena - increase armour

      Demeter - increase happiness

      Hades - increase faith

      Helios - repel combatants (current colossus)

      Hephaestus - increase damage

      Hermes - increase accuracy

      Poseidon - increase war ship speed
      How would activating a wonder to increase Faith be beneficial? I fail to see a scenario where someone would do that. As a passive, I could see that working(as you won't need as many Priests to convert your populace) but in a temporary instance... again I just don't see any situation that would cause someone to activate it. Interesting that you have increased accuracy for a temporary buff on a Wonder. Frankly that wouldn't be a bad one for Ares to replace the Morale. Hades would get the damage buff from Hephaestus while Hephaestus retains the Armor buff. Hermes would be reformed to reduce loading times by a percentage instead of increasing loading speed by a %. That way all Empires, big and small, would benefit evenly from the Wonder's effect. Level 5 Hermes would load things instantly while active.
    • Heres my contribution, Dark Helmet. Its a little crazy, but crazy wins, right. :D
      I doubt anyone will like them much, but why not throw them out? Its a brainstorming thread. Who knows where these ideas will lead someone else's brainstorm.
      Forge-reduce cooldown
      Less competition for islands, more map coverage, other miracles are used more leading to more new strategies, more people with forges means we could see more fighting, less people thinking 'i cant declare war. My opponent has fulltime forge and I cant find enough forge islands so I settled for something else.'
      To anyone who says, full time forge is about sacrifice, my comment is that I have sacrificed to get it and that sacrifice led to empty servers. I would like to see the new server active, not just merging so I can fill CTs

      I agree with lamnation about changing Hermes. Otherwise, leave hermes as he is. Sorry if i misspelled your name, lamnation. I keep think laminating for some reason.)
      Dont change Posiedon, Colossus, or Athena

      Ares should give a happiness boost for 24h with a 3 day cooldown. Demeter should compliment Ares, but if activated at the same time, Demeter's affect should be nulled.

      Hades-my wishlist for Hades would turn him into a less powerful version of Colossus that works during occupations. I made the mistake of telling Tyyni that and she said it would encourage people to multi-account. But I am tossing it out anyway since I have no other ideas to offer for Hades. The idea is that Hades would have the same cooldown, but half the power of Colossus. (Lvl 5 would remove 50% of the troops.) No scattering of troops, they return to the owners town, not the town they deployed from. Meaning you got kicked out of the town, but you arent losing a whole day of fighting unless your towns are that far away. If you play with a lvl 4 Colossus on purpose, you can probably imagine some of the strategies this would add to battle. On top of that, imagine being a small player with the ability to reduce the number of troops in your town to what you can manage to kill more easily. Now imagine that small player being on your island during a war and he chases away half the troops/warships in his town before you try to free it. This would add a new dimension to fighting without really changing it, plus promote teamwork. I know its a crazy redundant idea. Thats why its on my wishlist and not an actual suggestion. OK, OK, yes I want people to stop raising the faith level on the Colossus I am leeching. With this, that argument will finally stop. I had the island all to myself until some guy used ambrosia to put a town there. I am really tired of fighting anout it.
    • Reducing the cooldown on Hephaestus is DOA(Dead on Arrival) to me. Its very easy to reduce cooldowns on Wonders. No need to make it even easier on a Wonder that is heavily used. Anyways, heres what I have for the Wonders so far(active effects mind you, no passive).

      Ares: Either removes White Flag option for both sides(Helios/Colossus overrides), or increases accuracy of units on both sides(hence increasing kills and frankly I like that option).

      Helios/Colossus: Leave the same

      Athena: Leave the same

      Hades: Increases Damage of Units

      Hephaestus: Increases Armor of Units

      Hermes: Reduces Loading Times by a %

      Poseidon: Leave the same

      Demeter: I'd like to change this since its current form isn't as widely used or as useful as people think. I was thinking of temporarily boosting resource production for 1 Day with a 7 day cooldown seeing as she's the God of the Harvest but I'll leave that for you all to decide.

      As for everything else, what do you all think? I would also propose having the wonders re-organized on older servers such that Hephaestus no longer shows up on ONLY Sulfur Islands.
    • I showed Tyyni your reply, DH. She wrote this and asked me to post it. She doesnt play here since she hates this community. I am just a fighter. Tyyni is the lady with the words. You can reach her through pm on the uk boards. She is bringiton212.

      I have to disagree with you on forge. When half of your towns need to be dedicated to one miracle, its a problem that could be addressed to make the game better, especially since it is so widely used that it is necessary to have it. We are limited to 12 towns. If 6 of those towns are dedicated to one miracle, 3-4 dedicated to poseidon and the other 2-3 are colossus, reducing the need to only 3 or 4 forges will give us more room for other miracles and encourage more fighting, which keeps our servers active (provided the player is using theocracy.) Otherwise forget changing the miracles at all. It wont be necessary since no one can use any but the same 3 we are already using. But wait, you want to divide forge's powers between 2 miracles. What do I sacrifice to have forge then? Posiedon or Colossus? Both?

      If you are willing to discuss lowering their cooldown so we dont need so many towns dedicated to them, why not discuss lowering forges cooldown so we arent building 2 temples to do what one does already? How often will you go into battle without both active?

      Lets say you have increased damage and accuracy activated, I need increased armor, damage, and accuracy to defeat you. How many towns are dedicated to just that one battle? How often could I fight? Once or twice a week? I can fight daily now. Why are you asking me to give that up and pay more gold to do it?

      And it sounds like a good idea in theory to not allow whiteflagging during battle, but you try rebuilding your guns and sea mortars after every battle. You run out of population real quick, which means you cant rebuild and are out of the fighting while you build your population back up. It will keep small players from being able to fight and if small players cant fight, they dont stick around. And theres no need to block Colossus. No one will be able to have one and no fighter is dumb enough to activate a miracle in their town that keeps them from using Colossus.

      Miracles will be randomized on the new servers. Its one reason why I doubt GF will merge servers into each other. They know the current setup on older servers is why they are losing population on them.
    • Miracles weren't meant to be used 24/7 and one can fight(and do it well) without Miracles active. The fact it takes like 6 towns JUST for someone to have a cooldown close to what the duration of the miracle illustrates that point. Asking for cooldowns to be lowered is basically asking "Please sir, May I have some more?" without having to work for it. The reason I split up the Forge's effects is exactly because its so heavily used AND the fact that other Wonders are not. Under that setup, you have to choose whether you want the Damage(which ultimately people will go for) or for the Armor(not as useful but it still helps). This game is all about choices and you can choose to utilize both Wonders but you will have to pay the cost in doing so. As for the smaller players, I would counter with the fact that smaller players generally should avoid war when able since war is costly and detrimental to growth(unless your opponents feed you with pillaged resources).

      I never said anything about blocking Colossus(it overrides the white flag option on Ares if it went that route) and if Ares forces players to rebuild guns and sea mortars more often, then the Wonder served its purpose did it not?
    • Rather than making a whole new thread regarding this topic, I felt like picking up where I left off years ago with a few new ideas on this subject. As we all know the Big Three Wonders are Hephaestus, Poseidon and Colossus and they are used for a reason: They work and they are helpful. The other five... not so much unless if utilized in a specific manner(like 24/7 Athena). Some Wonders, like Ares and to a lesser degree Hades or Hermes are all but worthless to the vast majority of players. Below suggestions are to overhaul these specific wonders.

      Ares: God of Pirates

      Although I hate Piracy to its core, I'm resigned to the fact its here to stay and hence I thought that a Wonder for Pirates might be something to look at. Seeing as Tenders and Cooks all but make Ares in its current form pointless, I decided to turn Ares into the God/Wonder for Pirates.

      Level 1: +5% Crew Strength
      Level 2: +10% Crew Strength
      Level 3: +15% Crew Strength
      Level 4: +20% Crew Strength
      Level 5: +25% Crew Strength

      Duration 24 hours with 7 day cooldown

      Hades: God of Death

      When it comes to conflict on Ikariam, its often best to be doing the fighting in another player's town rather than your own. Yet Hades doesn't benefit you one bit whatsoever when you are on the Offensive. I therefore, propose that a new condition for Hades be added.

      Condition#1: Enemies that are killed in your towns are credited back as Marble units(what Hades does currently and will be kept).
      Condition#2: Enemies that are killed in foreign towns are credited back as Marble units if and only if they are killed by your Military(hence if your Military isn't on the battlefield, you won't benefit) or your units die(in which case you can recycle them back as Marble units).

      Effect and Cooldown remain the same but with the slight condition change above.

      Hermes: God of Shipping.

      The knock on Hermes is that its effect can be offset by upgrading your Trade Port(s), hence its usefulness only really comes to light when you are looting players via a floater and need to move goods and your troops out quickly. My proposal is that Hermes affect the loading speed on all missions, regardless of where your Trade Ships are. That means on Trade Missions and Pillage Missions(hence instead of 15 goods/minute, it'd be 45 goods/minute with level 5 effect).

      Demeter: God of Population

      This change is radical and of course optional but I found that when it comes to Warfare, the one cost that remains constant is the citizenry needed to train or replace losses. While Demeter is used to replace population over time, I propose that it replaces population up front by lowering the citizen opportunity cost for training units and ships. Namely instead of a Mortar Ship costing 5 citizens to recruit, it could only cost 1 citizen! Citizen cost can not drop below 1 when this Wonder is active so units that only take 1 citizen to train will not be affected by this Wonder.

      Level 1: 1 citizen
      Level 2: 2 citizens
      Level 3: 3 citizens
      Level 4: 4 citizens
      Level 5: 5 citizens

      Being that this is Brainstorming, I welcome feedback on this.
    • DarkHelmet wrote:

      Although I hate Piracy to its core, I'm resigned to the fact its here to stay and hence I thought that a Wonder for Pirates might be something to look at. Seeing as Tenders and Cooks all but make Ares in its current form pointless, I decided to turn Ares into the God/Wonder for Pirates.

      Level 1: +5% Crew Strength
      Level 2: +10% Crew Strength
      Level 3: +15% Crew Strength
      Level 4: +20% Crew Strength
      Level 5: +25% Crew Strength

      Duration 24 hours with 7 day cooldown

      I know I originally came up with those values, but after mulling it over I think it'd be better to to +2/4/6/8/10% as that's not as major, making Ares useful without overpowering it.


      Heather wrote:

      But baka, how can you be the cop if you're not playing?

      HaNs Na MiTrAljEzU wrote:

      But then again, knowing Kaleg, it could also mean we're all screwed later.
    • @Kaleg Perhaps it would be more interesting to make it +/- those % in keeping withe the piracy theme, it has big reward and big risk; also plays into keeping the wonder at certain levels, dropping it and raising it depending upon how confident you are. I could see at the beginning of the round you'd want it level 5 and slowly drop it to give you a slight edge towards the end. Just a thought.
      You know what's really great about being a narcissist? Me.

      Wars won against: BTF, 101st, UN, UNR, BLOOD, VOZER, CELTS, -VIE-(Pi), -VnA-, UbNi, -NL-, REAL, BILL, UNREAL, PIMP, MTO, FUZZ, PIMPx2, Wolf, G-BRO, A-O, PIMPx3, FUZZx2, AOK, WarCry, -VIE-(Sigma), Pinas, -SPA-, FED, -HoH-, FILO, -SA-, TNT, DrInK, TRN, B S(omi), Honor
    • I. For builders.

      Hermes: increase x% amount of cargo ships with a duration.

      Demeter: refill your towns's population with x% immediately,, activate just like Colossus

      Athena: increase your resources production of all towns to x%.

      II. For fighter:

      Hades: increase block's mission time of enemies

      Poseidon: leave the same

      Hephaestus: leave the same.

      Helios/Colossus: Leave the same

      -- now , with those Wonders like that, feel free to choose 3 that suited best for you. (Food for brain :phatgrin: )
      I talk to people and size is not a thing that matter

      The post was edited 1 time, last by World -- ().