Merge problem--Gameforge not planning to allow us time to use all our donation credits

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    • Merge problem--Gameforge not planning to allow us time to use all our donation credits

      The recent post explaining how donation credits will be used seems to imply that they will be only good for eighteen days after the merger happens, and that eighteen days won't be enough time for most people to use them all.

      From the News forum:

      Q: What will happen to my mine levels? What happens with my donations?
      A: Unfortunately you will lose your previous mine levels. There will be other mine levels on your new server. But everything you have donated before the merge will be credited to a special donation fond that cannot get raided. For 18 days after the merge you may use that fond to donate into your new mines.

      Q: How should I spend all that building material you will credit to me? Mine levels take forever to finish!
      A: For 18 days after the merge upgrades of mines will take 12 hours at the most.


      There are so many simple things that could be done to fix this problem.

      • Allow people to earmark donation credits to a production resource even though it is upgrading. Then if enough were earmarked, it would just keep upgrading until it needed more donations or donation credits for the next level.

      • Don't make the donation credits expire. Let people use them at their leisure. How could that be abused?

      • Make the upgrades for the first eighteen days happen instantly, or in an hour or half hour, even, instead of in 12 hours. Then there would be plenty of time for people to donate their credits where they wanted them.

      I really think Gameforge is going to lose a lot of people if they end up on tiny islands and have hundreds of millions of donation credits expire because they never got a chance to use them. The elimination of permanent inactives is going to transform the game from pillage-based to production-based, and we will need to adjust to that, which means that Saw Mills will be even more important, and Wine will now have value. We might not even know right off if we want our Saw Mill at level 40 or our Vineyard at level 33, assuming we are even given the possibility of the former when we are deciding where to throw 13.5 million donation credits next. I say give people more time to figure out how to spend their donation credits once they see how the game plays after the merger.
    • automeris wrote:

      • Make the upgrades for the first eighteen days happen instantly, or in an hour or half hour, even, instead of in 12 hours. Then there would be plenty of time for people to donate their credits where they wanted them.


      It's maximum 12 hours, not 12 hours no matter what.
    • have to agree with Ryoko...

      It would make sense that the lower mine levels will have their time frame reduced as well. IF the cap is 12 hours for the higher levels then the lower levels have to be lowered to. I am betting that you will see instant for some of those upgrades simply because the highest level of a mine have to be completed in 12 hours.

      automeris wrote:

      And I will tell you, I bet most of the people who have left, and many staying including myself, will NEVER try out another gameforge game. I have already looked at games on the web and just closed the browser window when I saw that GF was involved. One experience with this management style is enough for a lifetime.


    • Ryoko wrote:

      It's maximum 12 hours, not 12 hours no matter what.
      Good point.

      I didn't start on a new server, so I never experienced the extremely short times of the early updates. The first 20 levels of Saw Mill, those under 12 hours completion times, take a cumulative time of 85:43 to complete. that is a savings of roughly 13 levels, since 12 x 7 = 84. But someone must be there at the ending time to up the mill right away, or a lot of that savings will be lost anyway.

      If I end up on islands where people aren't being extremely diligent, that means I have to be playing almost non-stop for those 3 1/2 days, making sure to check in exactly at the island-upping time for each of my eleven islands, around the clock. Once the Saw Mills all reach level 20 on day four, I will still have to check in 22 times a day to up them, and since there is no guarantee that my islands will end up in synch (somebody's won't) it will still be a huge burden. All to avoid losing something I shouldn't be afraid of losing. I already donated my 343 million wood, or whatever it ends up as. Why should I have to lose sleep, literally, in order to make sure I get the benefit of it and credit for it again?

      If I am alone on all my islands this won't be a problem (after the first 4 days), because I can synch them all, although I will be in the situation of not being able to restore my islands to previous levels.

      But if I am fortunate enough to be on an island with ten of us, all large donors, each of us splitting our donation credits roughly evenly among all our islands and between wood and luxury, and all with roughly the same amount to donate per resource, we will be going to levels 44 for the Saw Mill and 36 for the luxury good, and for the saw mill that will be pressing on the time limit, especially if it takes a few days to coordinate moving all our towns to the same islands after figuring out where we want to be.

      I am just saying that Gameforge should realize that the merger is as complicated for the players as for them, and if it takes them months to figure out how to deal with it, they shouldn't expect the players to manage--and force us to manage--in eighteen days.
    • Normally I find automeris's personalized overreactions just suitable for light-hearted humor (like the title of this thread. It'd probably be more accurate to say "Gameforge not planning to allow 0.1% of us time to use all our donation credits"), but this time the solution hardly seems drastic. Why should there even be a time limit on spending donation credits at all?
    • lamentation wrote:

      Normally I find automeris's personalized overreactions just suitable for light-hearted humor (like the title of this thread. It'd probably be more accurate to say "Gameforge not planning to allow 0.1% of us time to use all our donation credits"), but this time the solution hardly seems drastic. Why should there even be a time limit on spending donation credits at all?

      I'm glad you appreciate my posts, at least. ;) Thanks for your support on this issue. I think this whole merger thing is at least one situation where Gameforge does realize they should listen to the players.

      In this case I think it is the casual player on an island with lots of big donors who is most likely not to get his donations in--at least on that island. The big donors will be the ones setting alarm clocks to get up at some ridiculous hour to donate, and then post here to complain about having to do it. But it is going to hurt the big donors anyway, because the small guy will just donate the extra to a different island instead, one that isn't constantly updating and is going to end up with a level 33 Saw Mill.

      As far as the 0.1% rants, I think of myself as the canary in the coal mine. What is bad for me now will be bad for everyone in a couple of years. I need to speak loudly enough to be heard, because most folks aren't even aware of the issue yet. So personalized, yes, at the time, and overreactions, probably as well, but with reason. Unless I am really riled up about something, I don't even bother to post.

      I think maybe I actually kept them from capping us at 10 cities with my impassioned post four years ago when they announced they were going to do that in 0.3.3. Nobody else was looking seriously at an eleventh town at that point, but by now almost everyone would have been affected by such a decision, and the game would probably be long dead for builders, who would all be finished building. I was aware my post was hyperbolic even when I wrote it, but felt the issue was important, and the hyperbole emphasized my passion. It is one of the rare cases where they backed down on a major decision. They kept 11 towns possible in 0.3.3, and later added the dump (0.4.0) and made 12 possible.
    • As it was written here: Ikariam goes merge
      You will have time to donate your ressources, even if you are not here exactly when one end.
      You will have many islands and such.

      And your worries about lost ressources are a bit funny, due to the fact that most of the players already move one of their cities after making a lot of donation to the mills. At those moments you never complain those were lost and not transfered to your new mills...
      Also keep in mind that the current levels of your mills reflects all the donations since the creation of the server. Most of the users who did donate at that time are long gone (I mainly speak for the old servers) and that most likely you won't start from scratch. Also keep in mind the hudge amount of ressources needed for some upgrades.
    • King Kryo wrote:

      Why only 18 days to spend the credit? What possible reason is there to rush this? Why not 30 days, or 60 days, or unlimited days? Why not instant upgrades so that time is not a factor?

      Ryoko, "Will we have enough time to donate our resources?" is quite a different question than "Why is there an 18-day time limit for re-donating in the first place?". Can you address this issue please?




      The post was edited 1 time, last by Griggs ().

    • My main issue now isn't actually whether we will be able to spend all our resources somehow--it now appears we will--but whether we will be able to spread them out wisely after taking the time to decide, in coordination with the other players we find on our server, most of whom will be from other servers than our own and therefore unknown to us, where our towns should be placed. That will take a lot of messaging back and forth with potential islandmates, and will probably occupy considerable time of that eighteen days. It will be easier for those in alliances.

      Then there is the fairness issue to those unable to devote substantial time to Ikariam over those eighteen days. Even if they can only check in briefly once toward the end they should be able to position their towns to their liking within that period, but donating all their credits after that could become a problem.

      Since allowing Donation Credits to be kept and donated at any time in the future is a trivial programming issue, I am wondering why Gameforge is in such a rush to have us use them. We will want to donate the bulk of them immediately anyway, in order to get the production benefit from them. But since Ikariam is a game where careful planning for the long term is encouraged, and an investment that will return itself within three years has generally been a good value, it seems strange that they are now stampeding us into making major decisions quickly. Even for upgrading a Warehouse to a Dump we were given a month.
    • Lol everyone assumes they are the only ones donating, it's cute. It is extremely unlikely half of the active users will be able to spend their pool of resources in the 18 given days. How it should be done vs how GF is doing it are two extremes. Lets say instead of 18 days you were given 60 days. No matter the situation even if you were nusy irl, you should have the ability to get on, decide/plan on where you're moving your towns to be in an ideal area with ideal people and then be able to donate your resources. Yes, the question of why something that belongs to the account would suddenly become irrelevant after 60 days would still be there but it's simply more practical, Draxo


      Sig by June 8)
      Love is like air, without it... I die.

      spaPOT wrote:

      no worriess..you see im a kid thats why im dumb..kuku :pillepalle:
    • Ryoko wrote:

      You will have time to donate your ressources, even if you are not here exactly when one end.

      Apparently we disagree. GF says this on one hand, and then puts a restrictive time limit on the other.

      Ryoko wrote:

      And your worries about lost ressources are a bit funny, due to the fact that most of the players already move one of their cities after making a lot of donation to the mills. At those moments you never complain those were lost and not transfered to your new mills...

      Do you have any data to support the claim that most players move towns after making large donations to the mills? And even if they do, that was their choice, for one or more reasons you are not able to take into account. I recently moved 5 towns from one island to a new island after investing in the first island for over 4 years. Why? To make use of better wonders. I made the choice between donations and wonders to improve my gaming experience, but at no time did I give up my donations score or its contribution to my total score. I earned those donations, even if I chose to not benefit from them any further. This is the difference between letting something go, and having it taken from you.

      Ryoko wrote:

      Also keep in mind the hudge amount of ressources needed for some upgrades.

      Yes, please do keep in mind the huge amount of resources needed for some upgrades. Those huge amounts are the ones we already spent. And those huge amounts are the ones that will be lost because we weren't given enough time to spend our credits.

      The post was edited 2 times, last by King Kryo ().

    • Ryoko wrote:

      And your worries about lost ressources are a bit funny, due to the fact that most of the players already move one of their cities after making a lot of donation to the mills. At those moments you never complain those were lost and not transfered to your new mills...


      The donations lost in moving a town from one island to another are nothing compared to the loss of resources from all the buildings that are abanoned, or even broken down for a fraction of their value and shipped to another town. Obviously if someone is going to take the huge step of abandoning a town, they have good reasons for it and hope to gain in the end. They make that decision knowing what it costs them, and still feel it is worthwhile. I only know of a few players moving large towns.

      If you move a large town from an island where you have already invested heavily in the production resources to an island that has better resources anyway, you aren't likely to worry about what you invested and lost, you are going to be thinking about how much you don't have to invest because you improved your resources by moving.

      I put down two temporary towns that stayed around for a while before I broke them down. Both were on Hermes islands, placed so I could buy trade ships more cheaply. One stayed around for a very long time because there were some good close pillages, and it made sense to pillage from there and ship goods home rather than pillage from home, so I built up the trading post. I donated a small amount when I arrived because there was one other person on that island, but they went inactive and I stopped donating.

      The other town that remained for a time was kept because I was going to be able to buy one more ship shortly, and didn't want the hassle of taking it down. It was on an occupied island, and I donated more, but not millions, maybe thousands, not more than I produced on that island for the time I was there, and I wasn't shipping goods home, so I just donated what wood I acquired there.

      In both cases, the towns were abandoned when I was ready to focus on building up a new colony, and I chose my new colony locations based on my general plan, and built permanent colonies there.

      I have never dismantled a fully built town to move it to another island, and I don't think most people have. I was advised to do that with my starting town, on Sulfur, by many players, but I chose not to, a good decision after 0.3.0 came out. If people have moved towns, most have moved their initial towns, and probably haven't left much in the way of donations behind.
    • I have to agree with the sentiment that an 18 day limit seems unreasonable. We are talking about credits for donations that players have been building up over the course of years. If there were to be a time limit for using up these credits it should be on the magnitude of multiple months. Give players time to sort things out and see how the merged worlds are going to work.

      What about the scenario where a long time player happens to have real life commitments preventing him/her from babysitting credit donation during a significant part of this eighteen day window. They get f*$%ed, right? Hardly seems like a good strategy for retaining players and potentially getting longer term players more active again.
    • I'm dying laughing right now... Mr. Gameforge (IU) doesn't like the 18 days. Lets see... They could just have the 18 days for your mine levels, that'd be nice and unlimited access to YOUR donations that belong to your account... they could cut the mill times drastically low... 2 hours max.. hell, they could do many things but the one thing gameforge requires is a logic department and until they get one, they'll continue to fail their customers and scratch their heads at the reasonS of why a merge is required in the first place. Listening to the players more than they do would be a start but playing their own game could work wonders.

      We will not recieve justification, we will not be refunded, we will not be pleased. No drastic changes when this is the ONE POSSIBLE TIME they could do it with limited backlash since we can move, choose where we play etc for free but instead, we will continue to be failed.

      Its even more amusing when some staff comment about how the limit is fine... but why is it fine, why only fine? I thought it was importent to make your customers, gamers, critics etc satisfied to the best of your capabilities while still planning on making a profit.. it appears something fails to make sense and when you have so few talking positively of the changes and/or decisions coming, happening, past, then perhaps the players were right.


      Sig by June 8)
      Love is like air, without it... I die.

      spaPOT wrote:

      no worriess..you see im a kid thats why im dumb..kuku :pillepalle:
    • Apparently I read the numbers post wrong, re-looking at it you don't need to find an island with lvl 25 mines it was just posted. You could end up with lvl 50 mill / 46 mine finding an island starting with lvl 10 mine/mill, and even starting with lvl 1 mine/mill you don't end up in to bad a position.

      May not be the greatest option for someone that plays by themselves as a 1 island builder, but that is a very small majority of players. If your going to donate to 2+ islands, and your able to log in during those 18 days, you'll be able to spend the fund without question.


      (PS: I'm always "ok" with updates because I can take a step back and look at it from their perspective. Not always thrilled with the customer service. :beer: )


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