Star Wars: Revenge of the Sith Intermediate Game

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  • DrkAngel wrote:

    For now, I am just going to keep my eye on Baka
    I would've preferred "For now, I am just going to keep my eye on Baka and <enter the name of any other player here>"

    Why do I get the feeling the town is waiting for some "stupid cop" to "get lucky on N1 and hit on scum", then make some "stupid case" linking someone with them and the rest would follow them and lose the game??

    Or maybe they're waiting for some "other stupid cop" who gets to hit on scum for TWO successive nights, yet fails to read them correctly on both occasions?

    Well, WHAT IF there's NO stupid cop in this scenario to begin with? How're we going to handle this possibility if it turns to be true?

    What exactly is wrong with pressuring/inspecting 2 or 3 players simultaneously to get the game going? I mean, it would suit everybody if we did. For the hyper-active players there will be lots of raw material to wade through, analyse, respond to and ask questions about. Yet, those who have limited time could still find something to point out or respond to rather than drop by, leave a remark about how the game is dying and then take a leave for yet another 20 hours. (I DON'T blame them. They do check, and they find nothing to respond to. Nothing mind stimulating to get them to throw some propositions and/or insight after a long day of work.)

    I've said it before and I will say it again (just going to put it another way): I think we need everybody to do their part and participate properly. Now we cannot control their schedules or change their characters, can we? SO why not try to change the extremely laid back way we play the game, so it would -once more- become interesting enough, not only for the current usual players, but also for the new comers?

    Well, I'm done preaching. It wasn't my intention to preach per se. I just want some people to talk more, and if there's not enough for them to comment about I want to make sure there IS.

    P.S. The above is all related to the "DO NOT WAIT for his reaction to make a move. Help me out by either
    voting me or anyone else
    you feel like getting a reaction from" mainly, but not to me acting scummy'ish or being weird.

    Oh, one more thing: Drk put it best: "Not sure if it's him being scum or just him being, well.....him"
    Now if you inspect this phrase closely you'd see she's not only talking of herself, but for most -if not all- of you. If I stop being weird, will that help? ABSOLUTELY NOT. Why? Bc you already expect me to be weird. So, I'm kind of in a "damned if you do; damned if you don't situation here." The minute I start acting normal I'd be suspected bc "I'm not being me" (you KNOW you agree on this bit, don't you?)

    Now let me try this for one last time: Keep your eyes on me. In fact, I invite ALL INVESTIGATIVE ROLES IN PLAY to target me tonight. This means if one fails for any given reason (NK, RB, special role characteristic .. etc.) the others won't. Happy now?

    Now could somebody please try to get reads on other players as well? Because the last time I checked; mafia was a team game, and if the town won't work as a team then we may as well white flag and call it a scum win already.

    THANK YOU (no need to applause... or boo either).
    I see dead presidents on banknotes all the time.

  • @baka & FA: both of you made similar points about FA's fishing being her usual style, so I will repeat for clarity:
    Making posts that elicit reactions from other players is a good tactic. BUT being evasive, coy, or engaging in flat-out subterfuge are scum tools, and true town should avoid such behaviour. Even worse is the "Oh, but I was laying a trap" gambit, and since both of you indulged in this I'm now looking askance at both of you. Attempts by town players to lay traps usually end badly. Either the trap setter is lynched as scum, or they catch another innocent townie rather than the scum they were hoping for.

    Take a look at the current situation. Let's assume baka is town. So far Rup, LM, FA, Turkeh, Drk, and now me have all focused on baka. If he's town, this is a great situation for potential scum to hide in the general condemnation of baka's tactic. Rather than flushing out scum, baka has managed to give scum an easy way to make a post that allows them to hide.

    Frankly, I'm inclined to think there's a good chance that both FA and baka really are town. But as town, trying to appear scummy in order to "test reactions" or "lay traps" is doomed to failure. It gives scum an easy place to hide, because all they have to do is look less scummy than the town players who are working to appear scummy.

    Rather than give the scum more shadows to hide in, help to shine a light into the dark corners instead so there's nowhere for scum to hide.


    With that in mind, I'm wondering about Jesse. His response (#63) was remarkably non-committal. This, to me, looks a bit like scum trying to hide. The general consensus of condemnation hadn't yet occurred, and that post comes across as Jesse being unsure what tone to take. Was he afraid to take too hard a stance against baka in case we thought he was going for an easy lynch? Maybe. Maybe not. But Jesse has tipped onto the scummy side of the scale for me.
  • Alright, finally in front of a computer again. I've read through the thread again a couple times and here are my thoughts so far:

    After rereading LM and FA's exchange at the beginning of the game, I actually find LM to be a bit more suspicious in this situation than FA. FA, in my opinion, is asking LM a spam question regarding the whole 'how are you going to keep an eye on [her]?' LM answers quite defensively wondering whether FA's vote is a spam vote or a real one - when clearly it's a spam vote as it's the beginning of the game and she has literally nothing to go on but his opening vote. FA, in what I've come to learn is true FA style, then continues to stir the pot. HOWEVER, the rest of LM's responses were perfectly reasonable and I do not, at this point, have any reason to really suspect he is scum ... I just bring this up to explain why I do not find FA to be scummy for this as it seems to be nothing more than a spam-filled exchange.

    In the last two games, baka was a cop. He acted like a cop, too. Interrogating players, asking trick questions :P ... I've really began noticing in this game (as have others) that he isn't acting the same. This could be because he's doesn't have a PR but is still a townie, or because he is "evolving as a player" as he claims, but I find it odd and quite suspicious. By wanting to lynch abduln (admittedly sheeping FA) to get the game moving and encouraging others to vote before abduln can respond (as others have pointed out) is also odd and suspicious.
    Personally, I feel like abduln was just making a quick comment to contribute but there didn't seem to be a lot to go on at that point and he didn't have any real suspicions toward anyone.
    Either baka is extra eager or extra scummy ... I have a feeling he's really talented at explaining his way out of things, as he encouraged Kaleg to do when he outed him as scum in the Angels and Demons game.

    That being said, FA's post about Rup also caused me to question her a bit: "@RUP I kind of missed your recent pm somehow when I posted my last massage. if you think baka is your main scum read why you stayed in shadow and didn't go for a vote? its like throwing stone in a muddy water ... "
    She mentions a "recent pm" - which is probably a mistake - but I would assume the only people who can pm each other are anti-town. Was this a typo? Or a slipup? Were FA and Rup pming each other as mafia before the game and that's why she accidentally referred to his post as a pm? I don't know. Right now, I'm leaning toward it being just a mistake ... but it is something that should be noted, I think.

    So, mostly I'm looking at baka - but in no way do I fully trust anyone else, and I'm not 100 percent ready to place a vote yet.
    (On a lighter note, my favorite Star Wars character is Han Solo :) )
  • Sniped by baka - and yes, I did a preview before I posted and Drk's was still the last post. :)

    There's nothing too much I feel a need to respond to directly in baka's post, except to say that I've already been doing exactly what he's asking us all to do. :P
  • Was also sniped by baka ... and Heather (also did a preview).

    I understand the importance of pressuring people, but I still don't feel like there's enough to go on to isolate one person and declare them guilty. It would almost be a shot in the dark. There's several people I would like to hear a lot more from before I vote.
    I do agree with Heather about baka's methods ... if he is town, he is providing a good opportunity for scum to hide by drawing a lot of attention to himself.
  • @Baka - I have two eyes. I can keep one on you and still be looking for others. :)

    I do agree with you. If what you are saying is true and you are town, we still need to be doing more scumhunting. But it's kinda hard when you stand in front of us waving a big red flag saying "Look at me!"

    Usually by now, you have at least someone that you suspect and applied pressure to. Pretty much everything that I have seen from you is you telling us to scumhunt. My question is....how is you preaching helping the town scumhunt? I'm starting to get the feeling that you want everyone to find the scum for you. Kinda lazy IMO, and scummy.

    Everything that I have seen that has given me scum readings, has already been questioned. One of the downfalls of having limited time online, I guess. I don't feel the need to bring it up when it has already been addressed, unless my question hasn't been answered. In that case, I will ask.
  • YO You know I just had a quick thought, could this also be the perfect opportunity for to showcase us the possible scum in the game because don't they usually like to jump on early for a quick lynch or push suspicion on to others early?? Does it make sense what I'm saying??> Correct me if I'm wrong here :wacko:
  • @abduln: I do, and it's earning you some green points :thumbup:

    Actually, I do have a little bit better read on most everybody by now.

    Also, to note we -collectively- posted 30 times in 11 hours (as opposed to 60 posts in 42 hours or so, including the whole RVS block of posts) says I did get the game moving forward. Now I can only hope it stays this active. ;)

    Preliminary read (No confirmed town yet, and no confirmed scum either. Just weak leans thus far.):
    {Leaning Town}
    Rup
    abduln
    Heather
    Jesse
    FA
    LM
    Turkeh
    Drk
    Preditor

    {Leaning Scum}

    More to it: Rup is atop despite him not earning much town points, but he's the only one whom I have yet to add points on the scummy side for him.
    On contrary, the bottom 5 (FA downwards) have a little count of red dots (one or two at max) but have nothing on the green side either.
    abduln, Heather & Jesse have points both ways, but abduln has more on the green count than Heather and/or Jesse thus far, while Heather's only red is more of a "this all looks good but something doesn't bode well with me, and I can't pinpoint it."

    @Drk: You're spot on. Usually by now I should've found someone to suspect enough to pursue their case, yet again I didn't find much to look at by the time I started my stunt, so I did it and got something to fall back on if needed (pending future posts to compare/link with the current stuff).
    I see dead presidents on banknotes all the time.

  • baka: it seems you have an organized list there, however, the only reason you give for suspecting any of us is that something about Heather doesn't bode well with you. May I ask you to explain why we have little red dots next to our names? While most others of the "active" players have given their reasons for suspecting so and so or discussed specific scum tells ... you haven't - and you've been quite active.
    In fact, aside from spam votes on Turkeh and I ( :) ), a pressure vote on "Rup" and a sheeping vote on abduln (all relatively superficial) ... you haven't really voted - or listed your suspicions. You've spent most of the game defending your actions, and that's it.
    Without reasons, your list is essentially just a player list - something a mafia player could easily generate to pretend they are keeping notes or a list of suspects, when they really already know who the scum is.
    Jesse said of your actions, " In a weird burst of some weird reverse psychology I feel like this post is you being a vanilla townie and trying to make sure no one important dies and the game keeps moving forward."
    However, I'm beginning to think - based on your subsequent vehement defense, lack of reasons for suspecting anyone, etc. - that you are actually scum.

    vote baka

    For now, at least.
  • prEDITOR wrote:

    She mentions a "recent pm" - which is probably a mistake - but I would assume the only people who can pm each other are anti-town. Was this a typo? Or a slipup? Were FA and Rup pming each other as mafia before the game and that's why she accidentally referred to his post as a pm? I don't know. Right now, I'm leaning toward it being just a mistake ... but it is something that should be noted, I think.


    well I caught up and I'm still happy with my vote - sorry baka you yourself said I never saw your scum game. this is obviously not your town version ...

    That "PM" thing is a vocab mistake. I'm not english and I did the similar mistake like 1000 times before . :P and I meant "post" definitely and I meant my post #73 if it wasn't clear

    I need to go out today and i don't have to talk about anything else happened so far and I won't be back till midnight so I will go ahead and

    ask for extension

    Sig by Kaleg Nar
  • Eh admittedly I'm usually more aggressive with votes but like I said in the same boat I think Baka is town. The only alternative theory I could think of was maybe a godfather role. "Investigate me investigate me! That way I'll be cleared for the rest of the game." Also godfather role would kind of match palpatine working behind the scenes. Any ways that's just a theory, anyone bringing that much attention to themselves will generally not be mafia in my book but it's the attention drawing that's irking me mixed with the long walls of text sometimes filled with wifom. I do applaud you for noticing a slight change in tone from my usual posts Heather and I'm not trying to piggy back but i agree with most of what you said

    I guess if your wondering who my top suspect would be then I would still say Abduln, just because his post was mostly defensive and I want to hear more from him. Though I agree with what was said earlier, I am sure some people are just commenting on the whole Baka thing and hiding behind it to avoid posting much content, and that's throwing my reads off a little. <Vote Abduln>


    What if a child dreamed of becoming something other than what society had intended? What if a child aspired to something greater?
  • Hahaha don't we all know by now that I'm a defensive emotional pos? :) what's wrong with being defensive btw...? Is there any other reason other than that that you're voting for me? so maybe I can understand your vote against me a little more. Got a question for you btw Jesse without regards to Baka and I'm no expert in this game but wouldn't a Mafia also use the tactic of making themselves purposefully stand out so people would think that since they are making themselves stick out so much and perhaps appearing townie by doing so at the same time it would dispel any suspicion against them? (it sounded wayyyy less complicated when I was thinking of it in my head :wacko: ) TBH I don't have alot right now but what I do know is that FA jumped from LM to me and then to Baka today , this very factor gives me a idea that Baka may not be scum but that is my personal thoughts here, wanna shed some light on that Frozen so i can understand what's going on in your head :wacko: ?
  • @Pred: You are "amusingly" contradicting yourself. I voted 4, yet "haven't really voted"?? I "have an organized list" of reads on all players, but you still think I'm faking it?

    But the best part is: I put you on the very bottom of my read list, and you vote me, so that when I do decide to lace my vote on you; you claim it's OMGUS?? :lol:

    Well, guess what? You're scum and we both know it ;) Keep your vote on me, please. I might surprise you in a bit.

    @FA: I did provide you with the needed resource to check on my scum play. Check that game if you will (the only one listed in my wiki page on MS)..

    I'm still giving you the benefit of doubt though, for 2 reasons:
    1- I know you tend to be overly argumentative and demanding more details.
    2- It's illogical to assume you're scum over the 4 below you, and 5 scum is out of the question.

    However, I can "sense" you're push on e is not purely sincere. This could very well be a push to get an early claim from me, thus narrowing down your own nightkill targets. I thus cannot really decide whether you're scum, or just plain clueless. And you're fixation is keeping you from seeing minor details you would usually see, which is more reason for me to suspect you. Your usual would've been to ask what that meant, and/or get the hint and lay off. (to be honest I very much expected the former though). You didn't. You didn't even notice (which is worrying in itself) OR you did notice and chose to "pretend" not to (which is even more suspicious.. almost condemning).

    The one thing I do agree with you on by now is we do need an extension; so:

    @Mod: Extension requested.

    @Jesse: I said "all investigative roles", so a role cop -for instance- would NOT clear me. I did specify why I invited them all to check me out, since someone could fail due to one reason or another and even included "some role characteristic" in the reasons why one investigative role could fail to get a read on me. Even better; a FLAVOURED ROLE COP (if existent) will pinpoint my character.

    @abduln: No. Scum would never do this unless they want to be caught. I mean.. seriously, mate. If I'm not forced to do an early RC then I WILL be investigated by everyone who could potentially produce an investigative result on me. This means, not only the direct investigative roles, but also indirect or mixed (ex: Jailkeeper) will be all over my "you know what".

    But then you're raising a very good point in FA's voting pattern. In fact, I urge you to keep posting, bc -thus far- yours and Heather's posts are the only ones giving me better reads on the others (indirectly, of course, bc I don't have to agree on everything said in them nor do I necessarily agree to the conclusion).
    --------------------
    So, FA .. ARE you trying to force an outright roleclaim??? ARE YOU?
    I see dead presidents on banknotes all the time.

  • I happen to disagree with both Jesse's and Abduln's lines of thinking. "He's town because no mafia would draw this much attention to himself" or "He could be mafia disguising himself as a townie by standing out". Both are just two contradicting cases of WIFOM and are no real base to build your votes. I'm just glad non of you used it as such.

    Baka, you make a good point about Pred. But, she did mention those 4 votes in her post, she just insinuated they were baseless or unreal. Which kind of works in her defense.
    Also, I do read everything you say (not half) I just don't feel the need to comment on every word of it.


    Sig made by DrkAngel.
  • abduln wrote:

    what I do know is that FA jumped from LM to me and then to Baka today , this very factor gives me a idea that Baka may not be scum but that is my personal thoughts here, wanna shed some light on that Frozen so i can understand what's going on in your head ?


    This is ridiculous. your using VCA to follow me? My LM vote was a starting vote . I voted you for an obvious reason - because your not sharing any reads and just branching around.

    bakakadassa wrote:

    @FA: I did provide you with the needed resource to check on my scum play. Check that game if you will (the only one listed in my wiki page on MS)..

    I'm still giving you the benefit of doubt though, for 2 reasons:
    1- I know you tend to be overly argumentative and demanding more details.
    2- It's illogical to assume you're scum over the 4 below you, and 5 scum is out of the question.

    However, I can "sense" you're push on e is not purely sincere. This could very well be a push to get an early claim from me, thus narrowing down your own nightkill targets. I thus cannot really decide whether you're scum, or just plain clueless. And you're fixation is keeping you from seeing minor details you would usually see, which is more reason for me to suspect you. Your usual would've been to ask what that meant, and/or get the hint and lay off. (to be honest I very much expected the former though). You didn't. You didn't even notice (which is worrying in itself) OR you did notice and chose to "pretend" not to (which is even more suspicious.. almost condemning).


    I looked at the game you linked me. You were kind of obvious there. nice killing RC btw :P - But this has nothing to do with the way you played this game baka. Its not the usuall town you I know. you backtracked in abduln Idea just after you relized people started to suspect you.youre not giving any reasons about your reads. Your not the usuall consistent IIOA player I used to know - Your trying to test people like me ... It seems your trying to show yourself a copy of me and thats in my view is pretty pretty scummy! [thats not a reason for you to scum reading me people! :D]

    Your budding me was so weird. It was like your planning for get credits after my green flip ...

    Why you think I were insenscier in my scum reading you ? I'm sincere whenever I town read you ?! this is ridiculous . what the hell?! I'm pushing to lynch scum. your soft claiming aren't you?!

    If your town don't show yourself scummy! this is ridiculous argument ...

    as you have a very odd habit to put clues about your roles I went back and reread and I think I know what are you soft claiming ...

    Its like you did that to force me to unvote you ... I don't know if I'm getting your claim right or should I believe that at all or not .... you just avoiding getting counter claimed by soft claiming and trying hard to attack me with soft claiming ...

    I'm confused

    so your accusing me of role fishing ?! I ever asked you to claim or anything ? I did anything suggesting you that? You soft claimed yourself. there is not even a closly sirious agon on you. 6 votes are needed for a lynch and if I'm getting right when you softed there was only 2 votes on you

    Sig by Kaleg Nar
  • I know that i was pointing at Baka in my last post.
    And he is still top off my scum list. But i dont like that it is the only one that is being look at, (more or less)
    And i would like Baka to be more offensive at this stage. Beacuse this is something we could learn alot from if he in the end is the one being lynched. I aws very glad to see him making a point against Pred.


    But right now i am looking abit at FA beacuse of her last post..

    You are impling that you are not role fishing, but you made a whole post with the focus on baka might have made a soft claim. I dont think it is a good idea to point it out like that for everyone to see.
    I my eye this is a clear role fish and highly scummy.

    At this point one of the two mention is most likly to get my vote.