Should turkey be a member of NATO?

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    • Should turkey be a member of NATO?

      After the recent attempted coup President Erogodan (Golum) had cracked down on his political opponents at greater rate than has worried western nations for years. Freedom of expression has long been outlawed and the president is becoming more authoritarian. Just today Turkish police stormed the base where the US keeps nuclear weapons in turkey.
      Do you think that turkey is strategically important enough to remain part of nato, or do you think we shouldn't pledge to support a nation that isn't truly democratic?
      :gyrocopter-ani:
      BaM - Definition, bad at Mafia
      Sharpe12 - Definition, (Supremely handsome also refined, pulchritudinous & excellent) x12
    • Full support to Turkey to identify ALL involved parties and punish them as hard as they want.I think world had enough of "coups", "rallies", "revolutions",... orchestrated by someone in the background.

      It is not even interesting anymore.Country that took nothing from MMF (but in fact some European countries have debt toward Turkey), country that enormously progressed under Erdogan`s rule (economy and infrastructure) and country where people almost fully support their leader.I think background squadron forgot about the third part and failed...

      Should USA abandon Turkey ? Hell no.That`s why abandoning Turkey is not good enough, destructing it is a better scenario.Why let Turkey develop further and improve relations with Russia once again ? First we had disputed plane crash where allies did not fail to produce thousands of support statements, but interestingly during the coup none said a word until people took to the streets.We aren`t speaking about dumb ME governments, Turkey differs quite a lot.

      And I simply can`t laugh enough at "truly democratic".Kerry blabbed about possibility of death penalty today in Brussels and EU says that might set Turkey far from joining EU... I am asking myself do any of them realize how dumb all this "democracy" crap is ? How about EU telling USA to remove death penalty because it isn`t democratic ? :lol: Now that won`t work.Normally roles are reversed, but how does the stance differ if both aspire toward democracy ?

      What Turkey SHOULD DO is punish/execute/deport every individual who threatens their security and slowly shift towards Russia.
    • Funny you should mention Russia, the reason that Erogodan has such large support is he's eliminated his political opponents and taken control over media outlets, very much the same as what Putin has done to Russia. I'd argue both of them are nothing more than dictatorships dressed up as democracies.
      On another note, whilst the rest of NATO is working with the Kurdish to eliminate Isis and fight against Assad the Turkish are bombing them, part of a distraction on golums part to make the fact he's curtailing freedoms and making turkey a religious dictatorship.
      :gyrocopter-ani:
      BaM - Definition, bad at Mafia
      Sharpe12 - Definition, (Supremely handsome also refined, pulchritudinous & excellent) x12
    • Heh, quit watching CNN mate.Turkish people decided what they want and they chose so hard that even your leaders said "democratically chosen legitimate government".
      I am not so much with Russia but there needs to be a good opposition to what USA does.Without such opposition, world will keep buying your crap about "religious", "extreme", "authoritarian", "dictatorship" regimes who need democracy aka destruction.No wonder you have put your fingers everywhere and stirred up trouble.

      Maybe worry about democracy in your own garden ? Stop the violence between law enforcement and one whole race in USA ? How`s that for a change ?
    • I am referring to you as a democracy fan, not as an American.I figured out you are not American in other threads, that`s settled.

      I just find it ironic when west wants to force a change and imply something in Turkey while regime and people over there are pretty much on the same side.Maybe they should reward coup plotters for an attempt to destabilize country and turn it into Syria vol2, I believe west would be happier with that.It is even worse when west is more concerned about Turkey fixing its own issues while all these news about hate and violence in States barely makes it to the headlines.

      My prediction; situation will get worse over there.Turkish issue is probably not 'international' enough, so west will need more grounds and reasons to get involved.I expect more twists soon.Kinda learned this game.
    • You're not a democracy supporter then?

      The violence in the states dominate the news headlines over here (In the USA (I'm on holiday)). It's also heavily covered in the UK.

      It's very important that turkey is a proper secular democratic nation, one that's friendly to us because the Russians have two warm water ports for their navy. In the Black Sea where the only way in and out is the Bosphorus though Turkish water, and in the Baltic which requires passing through the straights of Denmark, given that Kaliningrad is cut off from mainland Russia by NATO members and the straights of Denmark are controlled by more committed nato members. This means that the Black Sea is highly strategically important to the Russians and there for us,
      :gyrocopter-ani:
      BaM - Definition, bad at Mafia
      Sharpe12 - Definition, (Supremely handsome also refined, pulchritudinous & excellent) x12
    • Well, democracy in its true concept is okay - but "USA and Co." have done quite a lot under the veil of democracy.

      Aside of everything you mentioned, Turkey is a country that has intention to develop relations with Russia and USA both, which is dangerous for USA.Just recently Turkey engaged in diplomacy with Russia again and they seemed to be progressing after that plane shooting incident.That`s something USA is not content with.They can`t let Turkey do it their way and occupy two seats + they can`t let Turkey slip out just like that and definitely shift toward Russia.So, what`s left ? Throw them a bone of democracy. Like I said, the only difference is that the regime and people are united this time.

      After a failed coup and all this drama around extradition and "democratic alerts" from States and EU, Turkey will probably shift to Russia if they manage to bounce all pressure that USA is probably gonna throw on them.If that happens, it will deeply affect US influence in that part of the world.
    • Although why you'd pivot towards Russia is another thing altogether. It's really quite bizarre. With its aging military infrastructure, poorly performing economy, high levels of corruption and demographic collapse Russia really is a declining power. It is predicted that they will lose 40 million people in the next 35-40 years.

      A more useful pivot would be towards the Arab league or the rising powers of China and India, although they predict China's position on top will be short lived as India catch up.
      :gyrocopter-ani:
      BaM - Definition, bad at Mafia
      Sharpe12 - Definition, (Supremely handsome also refined, pulchritudinous & excellent) x12
    • I believe Sharpe is pursuit by USA about the dream of democracy
      he's not really know that we - the American politic - do very good at selling crappy story and make people believe in it and follow it.

      in my thinking, ISIS is actually made up by the US government and fund by US corporation
      their goal is to use France, and Turkey and Russia military force to bomb the cities and states that against the USA.
      and when we feel the right time, we come in, and knock those Islamic states out just like we did the same with German in the past, and take control of the area.
      I talk to people and size is not a thing that matter
    • Glad to know you haven't the slightest clue of what you're talking about, world. Obviously you don't seem to understand how war works or what happened to Germany after ww2 either...anyways, to answer Sharpe, absolutely not. Seems like a terrible idea.


      Sig by June 8)
      Love is like air, without it... I die.

      spaPOT wrote:

      no worriess..you see im a kid thats why im dumb..kuku :pillepalle:
    • bamcbix wrote:

      Glad to know you haven't the slightest clue of what you're talking about, world. Obviously you don't seem to understand how war works or what happened to Germany after ww2 either...anyways, to answer Sharpe, absolutely not. Seems like a terrible idea.


      His knowledge is inline with what is written in the news, I'm not sure if you are American but my American friends tell me that the news in America is biased. There are many articles stating that America funded alqeda and ISIS but This could also just be a conspiracy theories.

      As for Turkey joining NATO, yes! But there should restrictions and there currently is. For Turkey to join they need to meet certain criteria, political, economic and military. At the moment Turkey is not meeting the criteria and the same principle applied to Turkey when they wanted to join the EU. They did not meet the criteria so they cannot join.


      HELL got sober BEGGING ON his KNEES
    • Nah.
      The US have funded plenty groups because at that time they were serving uncle sam's perceived interests. Yes, plenty are now enemies.
      This does not translate to: the US is using isil or something to bomb france... that is just dumb.

      The news everywhere are biased. People that have lots of different sources end up with good news. People that spend too much time on conspirationist websites get blank lies. It's the citizens role to aggregate data from multiple decent sources. If they don't, then why complain the data is biased? Makes no sense. I'm very sorry, the world is more complex than it used to be... tough :p.

      Turkey has been in nato since 1952. Do I need to say more?
      Turkey did not not join the EU because of some criteria. They weren't invited because:
      - 10 countries, some huge and plenty poor just joined the EU and there was a pushback against more
      - Turkey's location opened the EU to lots of trouble
      - and yah, browner / muslim probably didn't help, sadly

      As for the current Turkish leadership... well, it was already more authoritarian than is good. I'm reserving my judgement depending on how much it uses the occasion to become more authoritarian. Future will tell.
      What has been crystal clear is that Turks in Turkey and abroad, pro or anti-akp, were nearly all against the putsch. And that is great. That is what really matters.


      The internet needs an enema. Guess the current state explains the trumpets. Decently intellectual voices are drowned in the filth of know-nothing angry idiots spewing crap all day long. Probably humanity's biggest challenge to overcome, currently. Memes don't care about humans, same as ebola so we better start learning honesty and shutting the f*** up when we know nothing about a subject or deaths are going to start piling up on the altar of idiocy, hate and cowardliness.

      Schluups, Mad ruler of the Schluupsonians
    • schluups wrote:

      Nah.
      The US have funded plenty groups because at that time they were serving uncle sam's perceived interests. Yes, plenty are now enemies.
      This does not translate to: the US is using isil or something to bomb france... that is just dumb.

      The news everywhere are biased. People that have lots of different sources end up with good news. People that spend too much time on conspirationist websites get blank lies. It's the citizens role to aggregate data from multiple decent sources. If they don't, then why complain the data is biased? Makes no sense. I'm very sorry, the world is more complex than it used to be... tough :p.

      Turkey has been in nato since 1952. Do I need to say more?
      Turkey did not not join the EU because of some criteria. They weren't invited because:
      - 10 countries, some huge and plenty poor just joined the EU and there was a pushback against more
      - Turkey's location opened the EU to lots of trouble
      - and yah, browner / muslim probably didn't help, sadly

      As for the current Turkish leadership... well, it was already more authoritarian than is good. I'm reserving my judgement depending on how much it uses the occasion to become more authoritarian. Future will tell.
      What has been crystal clear is that Turks in Turkey and abroad, pro or anti-akp, were nearly all against the putsch. And that is great. That is what really matters.


      The internet needs an enema. Guess the current state explains the trumpets. Decently intellectual voices are drowned in the filth of know-nothing angry idiots spewing crap all day long. Probably humanity's biggest challenge to overcome, currently. Memes don't care about humans, same as ebola so we better start learning honesty and shutting the f*** up when we know nothing about a subject or deaths are going to start piling up on the altar of idiocy, hate and cowardliness.


      I agree that all media is biased, my friend in NYC reads BBC for non biased reports in America but when it comes to British politics/News I read multiple new sources.

      Again, I agree with you; humanity, we as people have become desensitised and it's a shame that we are this way.
      This is the type of post I enjoy reading, info backed up with facts! (Turkey joined NATO in 1952) Thank you :)


      HELL got sober BEGGING ON his KNEES

      The post was edited 1 time, last by Khaleesi ().

    • @Khaleesi:
      Yah, the media are becoming more and more a media of opinion (absolute objectivity has ofc always been a dream). Fox news showed that the media could even go from a media of opinion to an activist media with lots of success as far as the shareholders are concerned.
      And you are welcome :).

      @Sharpe12:
      Yah, the EU has rules... but it also allows itself quite some leway. The 10 added countries did not fill all requirements, especially Romania (corruption).

      @World:
      In the words of Jon Stewart: the media is sensationalist and lazy. A bomb goes off and the images are spammed ad nauseam.
      An imam (nearly all did) condemns the bombs... prrrt, hardly a noise. But again, I saw both and I'm not stoupid enough to think that showing me something ten times means it happened 10 times. The media are hardly doing a great job, but the public completely stinks.
      This being said, when people have a poor opinion of muslims... that's their vision, so I'm not sure what you mean by that? They should trust their own bigotry?

      And nearly every bit of info that isn't a complete fabrication originated by a media. Investigative blogs do not yet really exist.

      Schluups, Mad ruler of the Schluupsonians