Hoplite vs. Swordsmen

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    • Hoplite vs. Swordsmen

      Hi,

      I'm new and currently trying to figure some things out in this game. Concering the troops I have a question:

      Why can Swordsmen be later trained (Barracks lvl 6) than Hoplites (Barracks lvl 4)? As far as I know Hoplites are better:

      Hitpoints: 56 > 18
      Armor: 1 > 0
      Damage: 18 > 10
      Others are the same

      Then, the costs are almost the same (+10 Wood for Hoplites), Hoplites can carry more (5 > 3) en cost less per hour (3 < 4). The only thing is that Hoplites' training takes 5 minutes and Swordsmen 3.

      Am I missing something, do Swordsmen have some secret advantages I don't know of?

      Cheers,
      Mad.
    • To answer your question, they serve completely different roles on a battlefield.

      Swordsmen = Flank
      Hoplites = Front line

      You need enough Hoplites to cover your front line so that you can fight the enemy, while your swordsmen (your flank) take out the enemies long range units, and then attack the enemies front line from the rear (assuming they do not have swordsmen too).

      They aren't competition for each other because if I sent an army of fully upgraded swordsmen to fight an army of fully upgraded Hoplites, the Hoplites would destroy the swords. Swords are not meant for front line, and you'd do better to use them in the flank where they shine before anything else.

      The post was edited 1 time, last by Indes ().

    • Like Nikolai said, Hoplites are stronger than swordsmen man per man and in a fight of all hoplites vs all swordsmen, the swordsmen would lose BUT in a real combat, that's not really the case. That's where the flank and frontline (which Nikolai also mentioned) come into play.

      If go to Help-The Art of War, it actually gives you a pretty good starting point to base your basic Ikariam warfare knowledge as the mechanics are well-explained. (No strategies are explained so don't go thinking you're a master if you read it, but it gets the mechanics.) One thing you'll read it about are the different lines of combat. Hoplites go on the frontline while swordsmen go on the flanks. They perform different functions because of that and you do need both win so in all honesty, comparing swordsmen and hoplites is like comparing apples and oranges. The true unit to compare swordsmen to is the spearman, which the swordsman beats.

      That's the TL;DR portion. The following is me rambling to completeness.

      In the battlefield on land you have a total of six lines. The first is the bombers which is filled with bombers. They're primarily to attack enemy artillery. To counter the bombers, there's the air defense line (by the way, these first two names may be inaccurate as I'm doing it by memory) made of gyrocopters which attacks bombers primarily. The artillery line, made up of rams, catapults, and mortars, primarily attacks the frontline. The longrange line, made of slingers, archers, and guns, primarily attacks the frontline too. The Flanks made of spearmen and swordsmen, attacks the flanks first. If there aren't any flanks it attacks the longrange, then the artillery, then the frontline. So if you don't have flanks, your guns (most likely) which are precious, get killed. The Frontline made of hoplites and steam giants [SGs] has to endure the assault of the artillery and longrange and then attack the opposing frontline. This is also the line that grabs everything to fill it. If there aren't any hops and SGs left, it grabs from the flanks, and then from longrange units out of ammo. (You want it to only have frontline units because other stuff sucks on the frontline.) If the opposing frontline goes, it then attacks the longrange, then the artillery, and then the flanks.


      Heather wrote:

      But baka, how can you be the cop if you're not playing?

      HaNs Na MiTrAljEzU wrote:

      But then again, knowing Kaleg, it could also mean we're all screwed later.
    • Kaleg and Nikolai pretty much answered most of what you asked but the 3 and 5 values on Swordsmen and Hoplites respectfully are not carry or loot values but rather how much space they take up on Trade Ships while traveling from island to island. Only Trade Ships can carry loot and only Trade Ships can carry troops(hence if you pillage a town by sea, your Trade Ships have to carry the surviving units back home, which cuts into how much loot your ships can take back).
    • Ah, thanks you three for your great answers. I think I got the basics:

      - Hoplites and Swordsmen are complementary, not substitutable
      - The '5' and '3' is how much space they cost on a trade ship

      Got it.

      One more question: concerning the different lines (frontline and flanks); do they automatically fight on their best line, or do I have to appoint them somehow?
    • What Kaleg said. As long as you have enough soldiers to fill each space for Front line, Flank, Artillery,and Air (Gyro's/Bombers) you should be good.

      If you have trouble finding out how to fill out spaces for different sized colonies then you can always use http://ikariam.wikia.com/wiki/Main_Page to search up the units and how many of each unit you will need to fill the battlefield + more.

      It may be outdated, but I still use the Wikipedia and some older Ikariam threads to decide what I build my armies with. It usually depends on if they are an active or inactive player that I'm pillaging too.

      On another note: You can always consider waving;really complex,time consuming strategy, after you research Steam Giants. I haven't fully grasped the Idea of waving but when fighting larger opponents and to reduce casualties, it is best to attack their town with Hoplites first as fodder against their wall, while sending in a fresh batch of soldiers (giants, hops, swords,sulfur carbs) when the wall is down and you are fighting their soldiers. It's time consuming and you have to watch for different army morale/landing times for armies, but it usually pays off in things such as a war.

      I'm sure more experienced players here can give you more details into waving if you have any questions on it.

      Kaleg Nar wrote:

      Assuming you have enough frontline troops to maintain the frontline, then yes. They fill the field automatically. The only manual part of battle you do is sending in and recalling waves.
    • Thanks once again.

      I assume the amount of goods I can pillage depends on the amount of trade ships I send alond with my troops, right? It is 500 per trade ship minus the space the surviving troops take?

      But what about the amount of gold? How much of the gold do I take along when I pillage a village? When I pillage the Barbarian Village I take everything (more than 500 times the amount of trade ships), but I doubt I will take everything every time when I pillage other villages...