President Trump

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    • You are American and i am British, our laws on freedom of speech are different. Sharpes comments are not directly but indirectly racist. This is why i asked him if he would share his thoughts with the very peoples who he challenges. He would not because some aspects of it verge on hate mongering.

      In terms of freedom of speech in america anything goes, whereas the UK Laws don't and generally the British Government believes in its duty of care to its people. The UK are becoming tighter in theirs laws when it comes to hate monger, hate speeches and they have monitoring online users more to the point where jail sentences can be handed out.

      I do understand what you are saying and had i not been British i would have agreed with you. You should look into the differences and you will understand a little more.


      HELL got sober BEGGING ON his KNEES
    • Kaleg Nar wrote:

      But at the same time, creating a third party splits the votes and that has historically caused second-choices of people to lose in favor of the third candidate they didn't like.
      Well, while the United States is in practice a two-party system in theory we have all sorts of smaller parties that really don't accomplish anything, mainly because they're more extreme or specialized versions of the big two. Libertarians are distinct from Republicans, and the Green party is different from the Democratic party, but not really enough of either. We need a nice, normal, middle-of-the-road party for normal Americans.

      Khaleesi wrote:

      In terms of freedom of speech in america anything goes, whereas the UK Laws don't and generally the British Government believes in its duty of care to its people.
      Sorry Khaleesi, but I can't agree that censorship protects the people. As an American our right to speak our minds without punishment from the government is one of our most important rights. That's why it's in the First Amendment. And that's why we have the Second Amendment, to make damn sure we can keep the First.

      Here's the thing, and most Americans don't really understand it either: free speech saves you from government punishment, but it doesn't mean you can say whatever you like with no consequences. As an example let's take the recent racist rally in Charlottesville. The government can't come in and punish the people for what they say (or otherwise express, such as with clothing or flags) but there are social consequences. As the various participants are identified and their names made public they are getting what's coming to them. Racists are losing their jobs, losing their friends and family, and losing their ability to hide behind a facade of decency. I don't want someone to be put in jail for what they say, no matter how much I dislike what they say, but I think it's funny as hell when they get fired and ostracized.
    • Alhazred wrote:

      Sorry Khaleesi, but I can't agree that censorship protects the people. As an American our right to speak our minds without punishment from the government is one of our most important rights. That's why it's in the First Amendment. And that's why we have the Second Amendment, to make damn sure we can keep the First.
      For me it is normal and i prefer it this way but i don't fully agree with it. AGAIN, using good old Jimmy Savile as an example (from wikipedia);


      Child sexual abuse
      After BBC television personality Jimmy Savile died it came to light that hundreds of people accused him of having abused them when they were children. The Sunday Mirror neglected to publish a story in 1994 regarding two of his alleged victims because its lawyers were worried about the costs of a libel trial. A British newspaper editor, Brian Hitchen, claimed he heard from a ship captain about Savile's abuse decades beforehand, but noted that libel laws had prevented people from speaking up about Savile's abuse.



      The British Government did not carry out its duty of care and because of that one man abused over 100 children.


      HELL got sober BEGGING ON his KNEES
    • Khaleesi wrote:

      You are American and i am British, our laws on freedom of speech are different. Sharpes comments are not directly but indirectly racist. This is why i asked him if he would share his thoughts with the very peoples who he challenges. He would not because some aspects of it verge on hate mongering.

      In terms of freedom of speech in america anything goes, whereas the UK Laws don't and generally the British Government believes in its duty of care to its people. The UK are becoming tighter in theirs laws when it comes to hate monger, hate speeches and they have monitoring online users more to the point where jail sentences can be handed out.

      I do understand what you are saying and had i not been British i would have agreed with you. You should look into the differences and you will understand a little more.


      What I want to focus on is that last line. The truth of the matter does not change based on where a person lives (except when it does, but I don't believe this conversation will get into those exceptions). Either Sharpe's comments are racist and hateful or they're not. We can leave aside legal aspects for the purpose of this conversation. So I'll grant them being racist and hateful as defined by British law. (I'm not versed in British law so I'm giving the benefit of the doubt here, not saying you're correct.) But I do want to say that, at least when I'm posting something in relation to abstract values, I often like to ignore all worldly powers that have mitigating factors in terms of laws, especially unjust ones, that affect the morality or quality of an idea.

      Alhazred, I do like your point how freedom of speech doesn't mean freedom from consequences and I'll agree that they had a right to say "Jews will not replace us!" but no guarantee that people would like it.

      And in terms of libel laws, those are a pain to weigh. As libel does do harm it needs recompense, but there's also the need to protect free speech. But in terms of what has been discussed, libel laws don't seem to be a huge issue as I don't believe racism qualifies for the category as it is applied in law.


      Heather wrote:

      But baka, how can you be the cop if you're not playing?

      HaNs Na MiTrAljEzU wrote:

      But then again, knowing Kaleg, it could also mean we're all screwed later.
    • Okie dokie. I believe uk laws follow the lines that you aren't allowed to incite violence or terrorism and that's about the limits. To try and limit freespeech is an absurd notion in a democracy.

      Right, by Khaleesis logic that white people have done bad things so all white people are bad and we mustn't forgive them. I'm not going to forgive her for the Siege of Lucknow, or the Black hole of Calcutta and I'm going to hold it against her.

      You may bring up jimmy saville all the time, and yes he's a vulgar and awful man who should have been hung from his :censored: until he was pronounced dead. (By the frequency of you bringing him up I'm going to take a punt that you met him or know somebody who has been a victim, which isn't that much of a jump given you live in Leeds.)
      But in these cases of Muslim gangs of child exploiters in Rotherham, Middlesbrough and a bunch of other places they didn't break it up because they were scared the likes of you would call it racist and go mental. Like so often happens if the police shoot a black person, irrespective of if he was committing a crime or not.

      Post Censored ~ :83
      :gyrocopter-ani:
      BaM - Definition, bad at Mafia
      Sharpe12 - Definition, (Supremely handsome also refined, pulchritudinous & excellent) x12
    • Ok, the last line.

      Do you know what culture is and what laws are? Our cultures and laws are different, an example of this is what happened in Charlottesville. White Supremacists, carrying guns and tiki torches (LOL - KNOBHEADS) were allowed to protest over a statue. That would never of happened in England and if it did many would have been arrested. The British Priminster would refer it as a terrorist attack but Trump believes its their right (he is right because your laws allow hate mongering).

      I am stating our cultures are different, Americans are pro guns and the Brits are anti guns, you have freedom of speech and the first amendment whereas we have freedom of speech BUT There is the Official Secrets Act, contempt of court laws, defamation laws, and restrictions on sending 'grossly offensive' messages on social media. The British government's intrusive surveillance practices also represent a serious threat to freedom of expression, because they discourage whistleblowers, hamper investigative journalists, and otherwise 'chill' dissent. We should also remember that sometimes other human rights protected by the ECHR and HRA necessitate a curb on free speech.

      Sharpe could post something hateful on the internet and if that incited a riot or caused a civil unrest he would be arrested but in America not so. Do you understand?

      As for Sharpe, as i wrote, indirectly.

      Sharpe, in all honesty i feel you are a gutless kid who is part hate mongering, trolling and attention seeking. Imagine it excites you to troll (now i feel sick). Bringing up statistic of how many muslims in UK who marry each other, why not American statistics? Why not write that ONLY 25 states in america outlaw cousin marriage? Why not write that over 250k Americans have married their first cousins? You are a typical Brit in every sense. Stay away from the generalisations and no you missed that point exactly. You mentioned the Rochdale grooming case more than once but not Jimmy Savile? Gary Glitter? Because you are generalising and your boyfriend Bambi does not want to show empathy which a basic trait that we all we have. I had empathy for the Americans when 9/11 happened, i also had empathy for Syrians when the world was bombing them but i am guessing you are reserving your empathy for white people only. By your standards we can not learn from the past.


      Sharpe is special because they have streets and businesses named after his family, :censored: .

      Post Censored ~ :83


      HELL got sober BEGGING ON his KNEES
    • Surely it would be the :censored: , show some consistency.

      Protests do happen over statues, look at protests over Cecil Rhodes statues in oxford, even the other day someone wanted to take down nelsons column.
      Anyway, we're not anti gun in the UK, we're anti urban people like you having guns. Everyone and there mums have guns out here.

      The reason I don't bring up jimmy saville and Gary glitter is because it's before my time really.

      Also the Americans have the same laws about national secrets, deflamation and contempt of court, they're law is based on our law. Just look at poor Jon Oliver at the moment, he's getting the crap sued out of him because he offended a mining executive.

      Personally I can't wait until we leave the ECHR. Then we can get rid of people like Abu Katada much easier than the decade of legal cases we had before. Then our good friends Jordan can deal with him.
      :gyrocopter-ani:
      BaM - Definition, bad at Mafia
      Sharpe12 - Definition, (Supremely handsome also refined, pulchritudinous & excellent) x12
    • Alhazred wrote:

      Really? Because we lived for eight years with President Obama holding the launch codes. Was there a nuclear war I missed somewhere?


      Im wondering the same thing... Is their some nuclear war happening right now that I wasn't aware of and if so how, exactly is it the United States fault?


      I get it, you like Trump. You gave him a chance and he failed miserably. Is it so hard to admit that he didn't turn out the way you hoped? It doesn't even mean you were wrong, it means you got tricked by a career conman.


      Ehh.. no, actually. I don't see the part where he has failed. That's the major difference in opinion really. Just going point to point on what he has done vs what he's completely abandoned...

      Sharpe12 wrote:

      All we really want in a leader is someone who will change nothing,
      ... No. Hahahaha no.

      Khaleesi wrote:

      bamcbix wrote:

      Ha! You don't know me well if you're going to ask me that question. Certainly wouldn't have a problem inviting them in.
      I don't know you nor do i have any desire to do so (I have standards). it's mutual, believe me.
      OK, so this same person comes back rapes your daughter, would you be so welcoming?


      I don't have a daughter. The difference is I have a mother and know exactly what kind of sick twisted person she is. If you were asking is rape wrong, sure... You did not, you made a false example where you assume everything is a high-five contest to see who's on your side.


      Are you mentally ok? Seriously? A normal person would have some sort of emotions, hurt, anger or even wanting to know why. If you are inviting the very people who abused generations of your family into your home then perhaps you are a supporter of their actions or maybe you was with them when the abuse was being carried out (DAMN, defo don't want to know you now). The point that i make is that WHITE AMERICA are saying to the blacks to get over it, your ancestors were slaves but its ok, we lynched your men but thats ok, we raped your women but thats ok, our police shoot you for being black but its ok because its the past, get over it.

      Im mentally well, yes. Seriously. I do have some sort of emotions.. you just don't like that they're different than yours. Generations? Wow... Didn't realize they were this old. You sure they're not dust? Personally I despise dust. DAMN definitely didn't want to know you before hand... But now we're getting to where you sound crazy. Black America... Where to begin? I'll just make a short list of things that come to mind. Victim mentality/culture (black America), considering I'm living in the northern part of America and I'm Republican you'd think they'd love me... Somehow they vote Democrat a large portion of the time. They sold their own people to the whites. My family and blood line has nothing to do with the blacks so I don't have this overwhelming feeling of guilt... I mean I don't have e one for the Jews either, but either way I don't agree with the actions of the past.. but that's the issue, it IS the past. Black America violent crime rate is absurdly high for the small percentage of them their is. There's many issues to factor into this foolish idea of victimized you have.


      White America has not addressed it is racist past (Present now) and because of this there is a civil unrest and a foolish leader who lives his life of Twitter. We non Americans are horrified at this and the only ones who do support him are the far left (the far left generally share their thoughts on the internet).


      i can't take you seriously... I read this and started laughing so I'll assume it was meant as a joke.


      White privilege, thats what you are a product of white privilege and it is the likes of Trump who empowers you.


      Privilege in what way? These are just hot terms you're throwing around to act like you have a point. Sure, I'm wealthy. I don't see how I have any more privilege than the blacks, asain etc that I went to school and graduated with.


      A terrorist attack was carried out in America by white supremacists and Trump blamed EVERYONE. A white Supremacist runs over a supporter and it the blacks person fault because according to the white supremacists the black started (Sounds like primary school but this is what white america is saying).


      Honestly I was too busy working to pay much attention to this. I'll take your word for it, but certainly won't agree with you on it.


      Trump is no leader, he is just another white man living of their family name and money. In terms of achievements he is not self made, Obama is. He offers no leadership but seems to pit the population against each other.


      Honestly with how much you talk like this on the boards I wouldn't doubt you're racist yourself.


      Again, i question anyone mental state who voted for him.


      I stopped questioning your mental state, I know that you're certainly unstable. Unfortunately you're not in the states or I'd love to see to what extent. I'd cover the costs and pay you for your time.


      Sig by June 8)
      Love is like air, without it... I die.

      spaPOT wrote:

      no worriess..you see im a kid thats why im dumb..kuku :pillepalle:
    • You want white but your ancestors wanted black.

      I am concerned with countries which directly impact me. Will i ever go to India? Maybe? Will you? I don't care but can go and find someone who does and share the answer with them?

      Bambi, i guess your brain does not process hypothetical situations or you are DUMB as ^%&(E$%.

      Sharpei, come back with facts, statistic and leave your ego at the door.


      HELL got sober BEGGING ON his KNEES
    • Went in 2002.

      In only 2 countries in the world did more than 40% of people say they didn't want to live next to someone of a different race, India and Jordan.

      Btw, I think your homophobic.
      :gyrocopter-ani:
      BaM - Definition, bad at Mafia
      Sharpe12 - Definition, (Supremely handsome also refined, pulchritudinous & excellent) x12
    • Yes i read this, apparently it is an opinion poll.

      Again, why would i worry about another country that does not impact me? Also, India has many issues and should i go there i would be more concerned about rape.

      Sharpei, i don't care. Plus, its hard to believe anything that comes from you.

      I am Homophobic, thats why i went to gay pride and worked at Queens Court. Hahaha penny dropped right? Would you like to hear about all the charity work i do? I am a big believer in giving and helping others.

      I love all, gay, straight, disabled, purple, pink, white, it is all the same to me because we are all the same. We just process information differently.

      Move to America mate, i am sure bambi loves you enough to give you a green card? Then you can join your peoples with the Tiki torches?

      Now i see the desperation, this means i am truly done here.


      HELL got sober BEGGING ON his KNEES
    • bamcbix wrote:

      Alhazred wrote:

      Really? Because we lived for eight years with President Obama holding the launch codes. Was there a nuclear war I missed somewhere?


      Im wondering the same thing... Is their some nuclear war happening right now that I wasn't aware of and if so how, exactly is it the United States fault?


      I get it, you like Trump. You gave him a chance and he failed miserably. Is it so hard to admit that he didn't turn out the way you hoped? It doesn't even mean you were wrong, it means you got tricked by a career conman.


      Ehh.. no, actually. I don't see the part where he has failed. That's the major difference in opinion really. Just going point to point on what he has done vs what he's completely abandoned..

      You must not be paying a whole lot of attention to North Korea. First Donny Johnny compliments Kim Jong Un, calls him a "smart cookie"
      then he decides to threaten "fire and fury (you KNOW he was watching GoT the night before and wanted to say "fire and blood". His own generals and advisers have tried telling him how stupid that is.

      You don't see where he has failed... wow. You really are unable to admit that anything is wrong with your beloved Orange Master. Where to begin?

      He's spent more time golfing so far than Obama did during his entire presidency. The Secret Service is asking for emergency funds to cover all the agent overtime they've needed to protect Trump's personal properties like Dump Tower and Mar-A -Lardo.

      He has violated ethical procedures at pretty much every point, from his recent pardoning of Joe Arpaio all the way back to his refusal to divest himself of his various business holdings. He's blatantly abusing the office of the President for personal gain, like when he has foreign powers and diplomats stay at (and pay him for the use of) his personal hotels and properties during government business.

      That wall he promised Mexico was going to pay for? Now he's threatening to shut down the government if Congress doesn't pay for it.

      Or how about health care? He promised to cover everyone, but now after his multiple efforts to destroy the Affordable Care Act with nothing to replace it have failed he's going to let it implode on its own. Which means f*** you America, I don't care what happens to you.

      He's invited violence across the nation, but hey, there are good people on both sides, right? That goofy orange f*** said that there are good people in the :censored: .

      He's trying to shut down or shrink national parks so he can GIVE the land to his friends. He's screwing over every environmental regulation he can, just to help certain rich campaign donors drill for oil when America's already got plenty of production.

      You know, I can keep going until I hit the character limit. How about you tell me ONE THING that Trump has actually done?

      Post Censored ~ :83
    • Don't forget charging the us government for him to stay at his own hotels, and charging the secret service for rooms to protect him. They had to move out of the trump tower because for he costs and now have a little hut outside.
      :gyrocopter-ani:
      BaM - Definition, bad at Mafia
      Sharpe12 - Definition, (Supremely handsome also refined, pulchritudinous & excellent) x12
    • Don't waste your time Sharpe. I forgot that it's pointless to show facts to a fanatical Trump supporter. Anything that Trump doesn't agree with is fake news. He'll say monstrous things and then claim to be joking or misunderstood. Don't bother with video of Trump saying things either, if he later decides he didn't want to say that he'll deny it and claim that the video was altered or taken out of context.

      Trump supporters hate America. The real America, not the strange delusion they think of as America but the real, wonderful country that I live in today. They're so angry that they can't live in the antebellum South, angry that they're finally on a level playing field with everyone else, that they'd rather destroy this country than live in it like equals. Here's a message snowflakes - the Confederacy lost. Get used to it!
    • First a note on the secret service: This isn't the first year it's gone over budget. In fact it's been going over budget for a few years now. Part of it this year is because Trump has a larger family than former presidents. Part of it are his expensive trips. I do find it ironic how he criticized Obama for golfing all considered and I do disagree with how much cost he incurs, but there is some context to it that the Secret Service would probably have gone over-budget even if he traveled the same amount as Obama.

      Khaleesi wrote:

      Ok, the last line.

      Do you know what culture is and what laws are? Our cultures and laws are different, an example of this is what happened in Charlottesville. White Supremacists, carrying guns and tiki torches (LOL - KNOBHEADS) were allowed to protest over a statue. That would never of happened in England and if it did many would have been arrested. The British Priminster would refer it as a terrorist attack but Trump believes its their right (he is right because your laws allow hate mongering).

      First off, I do believe the KKK, Neo-censored, and White Supremacists promote hate. Secondly, one man's hate group is another man's dignity. If we don't allow all to speak their piece, whose to say our piece will not get shut up because it's no longer "in-vogue." So yes there are times when free speech allows hate, but that's the price we pay for the greater freedom it allows.
      There's a quote I like: "I may not agree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it."


      I am stating our cultures are different, Americans are pro guns and the Brits are anti guns, you have freedom of speech and the first amendment whereas we have freedom of speech BUT There is the Official Secrets Act, contempt of court laws, defamation laws, and restrictions on sending 'grossly offensive' messages on social media. The British government's intrusive surveillance practices also represent a serious threat to freedom of expression, because they discourage whistleblowers, hamper investigative journalists, and otherwise 'chill' dissent. We should also remember that sometimes other human rights protected by the ECHR and HRA necessitate a curb on free speech.

      Which rights are being referred to?

      Sharpe could post something hateful on the internet and if that incited a riot or caused a civil unrest he would be arrested but in America not so. Do you understand?

      As for Sharpe, as i wrote, indirectly.

      Sharpe, in all honesty i feel you are a gutless kid who is part hate mongering, trolling and attention seeking. Imagine it excites you to troll (now i feel sick). Bringing up statistic of how many muslims in UK who marry each other, why not American statistics? Why not write that ONLY 25 states in america outlaw cousin marriage? Why not write that over 250k Americans have married their first cousins? You are a typical Brit in every sense. Stay away from the generalisations and no you missed that point exactly. You mentioned the Rochdale grooming case more than once but not Jimmy Savile? Gary Glitter? Because you are generalising and your boyfriend Bambi does not want to show empathy which a basic trait that we all we have. I had empathy for the Americans when 9/11 happened, i also had empathy for Syrians when the world was bombing them but i am guessing you are reserving your empathy for white people only. By your standards we can not learn from the past.

      When I pointed out that Sharpe's comments were not racist, you said you might have agreed with me if you weren't in the UK. This paragraph suggests otherwise when you say he is "part hate mongering,....". Which one is it? And when you say "I am guessing you are reserving your empathy for white people only" that is a large leap in logic. None of Sharpe's comments have suggested such a thing, but you pull it out and accuse him of that. That's part of why your comments are being called over-reactions and unreasonable.


      Heather wrote:

      But baka, how can you be the cop if you're not playing?

      HaNs Na MiTrAljEzU wrote:

      But then again, knowing Kaleg, it could also mean we're all screwed later.